New guy. Here is my Cat

[S1Steve]

I put down my Scuba Diving book and started reading this thread. This is much more entertaining. I’ll have to hug my Zetec before I go off to Cars& Coffee tomorrow. What a all star cast in this group...😂

[Croc]

7 hours ago, Kitcat said:

Croc posted this shot of NYC elsewhere and, when I saw it, my first thought  was: This must be the latest symptom of Vlad’s Zetec engine:)!

 

 

No Mike, they were fireworks outside my living room.  Quite pretty.  

 

Vlad's engine problem is producing symptoms more like this...

 

 

Not so pretty.  

 

[Vovchandr]

No real updates on the car as of this moment. Drove it around to get the Prestone ran again, refilled and drove again to be able to drain it again per instructions.

 

Decided to look into the correspondence I have on the car.

 

It appears that I have "Fast Road cam" in the head and it has gotten "stage 3 competition port and flow development"

 

The engine appears to have been been "blue printed" and built with Carrillo connecting rods and forged pistons. 

 

 

Side note: Very happy with "JAL" LED tail lights. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all with clear lights if I didn't have that brightness. 

[Vovchandr]

Small update.

 

Still pending head gasket replacement over the next few weeks. 

 

In the meantime curiosity still has the best of me and I'm seeing what I can tinker with. 

 

Dumped the Prestone flush and refilled again. Cleaned the new coolant filter from a few contaminants, got the car back upto temp and saw this.

 

Lots of air constantly being fed/circulated at idle as the car got warmer, eventually turning into a pretty constant air feed. The filter is certainly paying for itself here as a troubleshooting tool.

 

 

Also gave some thought to my number 1 cylinder/ITB making loud "slapping"/mechanical noise.

 

It's louder than all the other cylinders. For some reason I always wrote it off as the butterfly in the ITB making noise but it seems more likely that it's coming from the cylinder head and just being fed into the runner/butterfly.

 

Anybody care to comment on this?

 

 

[S1Steve]

Good Morning, I think it’s time to remove the cylinder head. Weak or broken valve spring, cam worn out.. and the list could go on. Rather than make things worse, it’s time for a closer inspection.. Best of Luck..🍺

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, S1Steve said:

Good Morning, I think it’s time to remove the cylinder head. Weak or broken valve spring, cam worn out.. and the list could go on. Rather than make things worse, it’s time for a closer inspection.. Best of Luck..🍺

 

Right. If everything goes right I'll start this week. 

[Croc]

5 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Also gave some thought to my number 1 cylinder/ITB making loud "slapping"/mechanical noise.

 

It's louder than all the other cylinders. For some reason I always wrote it off as the butterfly in the ITB making noise but it seems more likely that it's coming from the cylinder head and just being fed into the runner/butterfly.

 

Anybody care to comment on this?

 

 

 

To confirm - is it #1 or #4?   I am thinking back to your June 21 post and thinking this would explain a lot if it was #4.

 

Steve picked what I think it is - valve springs.  

 

The coolant filter also confirms the repeated air influx - nifty little gadget, never seen one before.  It also shows how the water starts clear then progressively start to lose clarity.  

 

Looks like a complete head job coming up.  

 

 

 

 

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, Croc said:

 

To confirm - is it #1 or #4?   I am thinking back to your June 21 post and thinking this would explain a lot if it was #4.

 

Steve picked what I think it is - valve springs.  

 

The coolant filter also confirms the repeated air influx - nifty little gadget, never seen one before.  It also shows how the water starts clear then progressively start to lose clarity.  

 

Looks like a complete head job coming up.  

 

 

 

 

 

This is #1,  front most one. However referencing back the camera scoped pictures #1 and #4 did look the same - both looked clean. 

 

I'll probably test coolant again this time under pressure and make sure that bubbles are still forming and it's not just boiling (even though the temp was well below 85 according to gauge which is right next to the head in Tstat housing, but who knows, stranger things have happened).

 

I'm a fan of the coolant filter gadget so far. I think I ordered it just one dimension too big but it works fine. Caught some material here and there and it allows me to have an eye on whats going on. 

 

You guys are very likely to be right about the valve springs. 

 

Stay tuned for next episodes of the head coming off. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Croc]

3 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

This is #1,  front most one. However referencing back the camera scoped pictures #1 and #4 did look the same - both looked clean. 

 

 

 

On your June 21 post, I was referring to the temp scans you did of the exhaust headers and #4 was "cold."  

[Vovchandr]

51 minutes ago, Croc said:

 

On your June 21 post, I was referring to the temp scans you did of the exhaust headers and #4 was "cold."  

 

Oh thats right. Good call. I should do another scan while I still have the gun on the next run with the pressure cap. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[CarlB]

My guess is the same as Croc's - A broken valve spring. A intake valve isn't seating completely. If it was a hot spot in the engine causing the water to boil, it would have condensed b the time it go to the filter. 

[Vovchandr]

Appears I wasn’t crazy that my cat converter was running hotter than normal

 

 

looks to me like a permanent discoloration right around it. 

 

Surprisingly to me my plugs on vacuum runners on cyl #1 and #2 got blown off my backfire from the cylinder head. One while driving. Second once parked and troubleshooting. It was a very unsettling noise coming from the car when the first one blew off and caused an open lean condition. 
 

finally ran the system with the pressurized cap in place and watched for air. There appears to be a constant steam of very small bubbles going through the system at any point in time. 

 

A little hard to see but you can see them at around 45 seconds in the video, 1:17 and other times

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Croc]

16 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

Appears I wasn’t crazy that my cat converter was running hotter than normal

 

 

 

 

For the record, you convinced me there was a problem with your combustion process in your temperature scans on June 21.  I wish it convinced you at the time.  That cat converter was hotter than the sun.  A single cold exhaust header tells me unburned fuel is making its way out of the engine and then combusting in the exhaust/catalytic converter.  Cat converters are really expensive to replace - don't damage the one you have.  

 

Your car has more problems than a Republican politician found in bed with a dead girl or live boy (with apologies to Gov. Edwin Edwards who died this week).

[Kitcat]

OK Croc, points to you for best post of the month.

[Vovchandr]

23 minutes ago, Croc said:

 

 

For the record, you convinced me there was a problem with your combustion process in your temperature scans on June 21.  I wish it convinced you at the time.  That cat converter was hotter than the sun.  A single cold exhaust header tells me unburned fuel is making its way out of the engine and then combusting in the exhaust/catalytic converter.  Cat converters are really expensive to replace - don't damage the one you have.  

 

Your car has more problems than a Republican politician found in bed with a dead girl or live boy (with apologies to Gov. Edwin Edwards who died this week).

 

Oh I'm convinced I got problems alright. 

 

The cat is pending an operation of non destructive strategic removal in the future. I'm not actively trying to destroy it but I'm also not overly concerned. 

 

On this recent test I was watching the cylinders with a thermal gun.  As I recall #2 was lagging a little compared to the rest before the gun maxed out. 

 

As far as your simile, isn't part of the strategy denial despite evidence and continuing to plow forward?

 

My phone has conveniently brought up memory videos of "on this day last year" when I was recording doing coolant flush/purge of brownish coolant and non stop air was coming up during.

 

I'm fairly certain the car had these problems during my entire ownership experience which would explain a lot. 

[Vovchandr]

Started the tear down today. First time lifting a head by myself. 

 

Ran into a few small bumps. 

 

1) I rarely run into this problem but I apparently dont own enough tools. Didn't expert Ford to use inverse torx head shaped bolts. 

 

2) From what I've researched my cams would need to be lined up at the end of this jobs and I bought the simple tool for it. However my cams aren't lined up to begin with? Do I try to replicate that or do I zero them out and make them match? I dont have stock cams

 

 

Here is the cam timing comment on the ECU

 

 

I should also mention that I'm swapping over to adjustable cam gears I've purchased during all this per Toms @1turbofocus advice

 

 

3) found a minor defect in the head. Tiny collapse of a mold. Not sure if always there or not. Not too concerned but found it interesting. 

 

I think the crank nut is going to be a challenge without having air tools on hand. I've heard of people using a starter but I'm reactant to do that. 

 

 

 

 

 

vs

 

 

[JohnCh]

Lining up the the slots on the back only works for the stock cams or aftermarket cams that were specifically ground with that setup in mind.  The latter is not a standard (e.g. Kent, who is a major supplier of high spec cams for Zetecs and Duratecs, does not do this).  Based on the ECU information, you have a stock exhaust cam and a Webcam intake.  I've dealt with Webcam before after finding a pair of their cams in a used head.  They keep good records and using the number engraved on the cams were able to find the specs for them even though they were a custom grind done many years earlier.  Find the number, call them, get the specs to understand what you have.  I'd also closely examine the exhaust cam to make sure that ECU notation is correct and they are stock.  

 

A challenge you face is not knowing exactly what the comments on the ECU info page really mean.  Does "advanced intake and exhaust cams 5 degrees" mean 5 degrees from stock cam timing for both sides or from the specs provided by Webcam, or something else?  Was that change based on a recommendation from an engine builder, the shop that supplied the cams, a guess, or established on the dyno?  I'm a little (okay, a lot) anal.  To be safe and to really understand the starting point, I would get a hold of a good quality dial indicator and holder and establish the existing timing before you release the cam belt.  You will need these tools anyway when reinstalling the cams.  Note: if your plan upon reassembly is to have the cam timing optimized on the dyno, then you could take accurate measurements of the slot angle of each cam and use this for reassembly rather than the dial indicator.  It will be safe from the standpoint of valves meeting pistons and should be a good starting point for the dyno operator, provided that person is competent in that area -- that is not the case for all of them.  

 

-John

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, JohnCh said:

Lining up the the slots on the back only works for the stock cams or aftermarket cams that were specifically ground with that setup in mind.  The latter is not a standard (e.g. Kent, who is a major supplier of high spec cams for Zetecs and Duratecs, does not do this).  Based on the ECU information, you have a stock exhaust cam and a Webcam intake.  I've dealt with Webcam before after finding a pair of their cams in a used head.  They keep good records and using the number engraved on the cams were able to find the specs for them even though they were a custom grind done many years earlier.  Find the number, call them, get the specs to understand what you have.  I'd also closely examine the exhaust cam to make sure that ECU notation is correct and they are stock.  

 

A challenge you face is not knowing exactly what the comments on the ECU info page really mean.  Does "advanced intake and exhaust cams 5 degrees" mean 5 degrees from stock cam timing for both sides or from the specs provided by Webcam, or something else?  Was that change based on a recommendation from an engine builder, the shop that supplied the cams, a guess, or established on the dyno?  I'm a little (okay, a lot) anal.  To be safe and to really understand the starting point, I would get a hold of a good quality dial indicator and holder and establish the existing timing before you release the cam belt.  You will need these tools anyway when reinstalling the cams.  Note: if your plan upon reassembly is to have the cam timing optimized on the dyno, then you could take accurate measurements of the slot angle of each cam and use this for reassembly rather than the dial indicator.  It will be safe from the standpoint of valves meeting pistons and should be a good starting point for the dyno operator, provided that person is competent in that area -- that is not the case for all of them.  

 

-John

 

This got more complicated than expected pretty quick

 

Intake cam says "260 e" on the end and I don't see any other useful identifiers on it. There looks to be a vague "Ford" oval cast on it as well.

 

According to the build log it has a "Fast road cam" for $425, which I assume is the intake cam. 

 

Amusingly the engine builder billed for 2 headgaskets during the build. 

 

Also there is an old note in the build sheet about "Install, shim, degree and Dyno 3 cam combinations. Map ECU for 3 Cam combinations". Not exactly sure what that means in the real world but I only see one map/profile on the ECU.

 

Regardless of what cam is in there, without adjustable cam gears shouldn't both cams be matched and even in the rear end and any timing adjustments would be done in the ECU instead of mechanically?

 

 

I think you're spot on. Stock exhaust and new "Fast road" cam which appears could have been made by a few manufacturers. 260 degree according to the 260 stamped on the back of it. Only other numbers on the cam I see all seem generic "L193B" (on both) and YSAA on the back of it & "1 0 H 9" in circles across the whole thing. 

 

 

The car should have only had one original tune that you see from the original build or soon after it. From the history I know and from the 2002 time stamp on the tune, nobody else has messed with it. 

 

 

Not releasing the belt yet as you advice. More digging and tooling to do prior to that. 

 

Honestly at this point I didn't expect to be doing more research and dial/lobe etc measurements. I expected this to be more straight forward. 

 

 

[Vovchandr]

The muted logo on the intake cam

 

 

 

Should this be a concern on the intake cam? Sort of looks like a piece is missing

 

Also the lobe on cylinder 2 is strange? Every other lobe has an even piece cut out on the back side of it. 

 

This one the cut out is "interrupted" where it goes back to being normal lobe and then finishes where it's supposed to when. Lobe next to it is a good comparison

 

 

another angle

 

 

 

 

[Croc]

18 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Amusingly the engine builder billed for 2 headgaskets during the build. 

 

 

 

No that could have been where the head had been skimmed too much as it is an old reused POS and you needed the extra gasket to get to a compression result.  I have done that with Holden engines back in the days when I was young and stupid....

 

...since then I have gained much experience on why that may not be a good idea.