Harness for road and track

[Pokey]

My car has the set-up you described. I believe the Luke/Caterham four points were added around 2008 and the original owner added the crotch strap later. The crotch strap is clearly newer than the four-point harness. That set does have an expiration date which is around 2012 as I recall. I'm replacing them because I want a set with a current date and the old ones are pretty oily and will deposit oily dirt on anything I'm wearing when I strap in.

 

Not sure where you plan to source, but if from Caterham I would suggest you make sure what you get has an FIA label as mine do not.

 

For the six point straps I've just received, I'm having to source fasteners (bolts and washers/spacers) as what Caterham provided won't work with my chassis. That and the lack of labels will have me looking elsewhere when I replace what I have.

[SanderGA]

I just got a set from Caterham that has FIA tags with 2025 expiration dates and a bag of Caterham Parts in addition to the Schroth parts. Did you got these?

 

I got these.

[Pokey]

I just got a set from Caterham that has FIA tags with 2025 expiration dates and a bag of Caterham Parts in addition to the Schroth parts. Did you got these?

 

I got these.

 

Yep, what came with my kit are the Luke version without the Luke/FIA label. The crotch straps I'm adding have the label in the picture on Caterham's parts website, but what I received doesn't (not that it matters since the 4-point lacks the label). Seems the takeaway is to buy the Schroth, not Luke, version if purchasing from Caterham.

[CBuff]

Just started my journey down the Caterham 7 rabbit hole. 

 

Not sure if anything has changed on this in the last couple years. I put in an order for a 420R with S type seats for a feb '23 build slot. I was thinking that the 4 pt harness would be sufficient for street use (and easier to get in and out etc). But also planning on doing some track days, which may eventually require 6 pt or sub straps. Can I have the 6pt harness installed on the S type leather seats? Can you wear them without the sub straps on the street? Or is it better to get the 4 pt and have the sub straps installed (and only use on the track)? https://caterhamparts.co.uk/seatbelts-harnesses/1195-crutch-strap-black-plugs-into-4-point-harness.html

 

What should I specify when ordering from Caterham? Any insights would be appreciated. 

[Lotusfan]

This is a really interesting and important topic.  From reading a little bit on this over the years and having installed harnesses when I put Tillets in my car, the “solution” for a street car driven occasionally on the track, would be 3 inch shoulder straps, crotch straps that loop through the lap belts, pull up on the lap belts (there isn’t enough space to adjust pull downs when in the car) and pull down on the shoulder straps, with bolt in ends and all sized for our cars, with FIA labels on them.  Perhaps one of the US dealers could coordinate a package, or perhaps we could put together a group interested to put together a group order and buy.  I’d be interested in driver and passenger side and am willing to make some calls if someone car help with hammering down the specifics needed.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Lotusfan

[sltous]

12 minutes ago, Lotusfan said:

This is a really interesting and important topic.  From reading a little bit on this over the years and having installed harnesses when I put Tillets in my car, the “solution” for a street car driven occasionally on the track, would be 3 inch shoulder straps, crotch straps that loop through the lap belts, pull up on the lap belts (there isn’t enough space to adjust pull downs when in the car) and pull down on the shoulder straps, with bolt in ends and all sized for our cars, with FIA labels on them.  Perhaps one of the US dealers could coordinate a package, or perhaps we could put together a group interested to put together a group order and buy.  I’d be interested in driver and passenger side and am willing to make some calls if someone car help with hammering down the specifics needed.

Check in with Josh @ Rocky Mountain Caterham.  Last I talked to him about harnesses he had a specific Sabelt kit sorted out for non FIA cars.

[Lotusfan]

I’ll reach out to him tomorrow!

[sf4018]

3 hours ago, CBuff said:

Just started my journey down the Caterham 7 rabbit hole. 

 

Not sure if anything has changed on this in the last couple years. I put in an order for a 420R with S type seats for a feb '23 build slot. I was thinking that the 4 pt harness would be sufficient for street use (and easier to get in and out etc). But also planning on doing some track days, which may eventually require 6 pt or sub straps. Can I have the 6pt harness installed on the S type leather seats? Can you wear them without the sub straps on the street? Or is it better to get the 4 pt and have the sub straps installed (and only use on the track)? https://caterhamparts.co.uk/seatbelts-harnesses/1195-crutch-strap-black-plugs-into-4-point-harness.html

 

What should I specify when ordering from Caterham? Any insights would be appreciated. 

The Caterham 4-point harness quick release has 5 ports, and the bottom point is unused as they supply. If the seat has an opening in the crotch area you can install the additional points after the build to make it a 6-point harness (6 points at the car, 5 points at the buckle)...Luke Crutch Strap - Double Red (europaspares.com). If you don't have a hole in the I'm not sure what the options are.

I ran on track initially with a 4-point harness, it worked ok but I didn't feel it held my HANS device well as I couldn't pull down on the shoulder straps as hard as needed. So I converted to 6-point on Tillet seats. I guess an alternative is stick with the 4 point and go with a Hybrid Hans.

 

[CBuff]

Thanks for the feedback. I have read in some of the forums that people have mounted the crutch straps and they lay on the seat under your backside (since the S seats dont have a opening). Not sure of the general thinking regarding this. 

[Croc]

5 hours ago, CBuff said:

Can I have the 6pt harness installed on the S type leather seats? Can you wear them without the sub straps on the street? Or is it better to get the 4 pt and have the sub straps installed (and only use on the track)? https://caterhamparts.co.uk/seatbelts-harnesses/1195-crutch-strap-black-plugs-into-4-point-harness.html

 

What should I specify when ordering from Caterham? Any insights would be appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

Yes you can use the 6 point belts with the leather S type seats.  After installing shoulder, lap and submarine belts, the seat base is removable. You feed submarine straps up between seat back and seat base.  You then sit on the submarine straps and belt yourself in. 

 

Yes you can use then without the submarine straps on the street.  just hide them under the seat base.  This is how I drove my Caterham for 10 years until I switched to custom Tillet seats this year.  

 

I would order the 6 points and install them all at once.  

 

Be careful with ordering belts from Caterham.  Most local NY/NJ tracks require FIA label belts with an expiry date.  Caterham has mis-sold a few people recently with belts that do not work with our local tracks.  They tell you it is FIA compliant  but it does not come with the FIA compliance label.   Other states can use non-FIA belts but not in NJ or the NY tracks I have run.  

 

I think the Caterham FIA belts are these:

HARNESS 6 POINT RACE SCHROTH LH KIT INCL FITTINGS - Caterham Parts

 

But you should confirm suitability before purchasing.  There is an equivalent right hand side version on the website.  

 

Same set comes from Beachman Racing here.  I ordered mine from Bruce as I was getting non-answers from Caterham and Bruce could confirm suitability.  

Schroth 6-Point Harness RH — Beachman Racing

 

 

Where are you in NYC?  I am based in lower Manhattan with my car in a garage at NJMP.

 

 

 

 

[CBuff]

Croc, thanks for the info. I will use your reference when finalizing my build specs.  
 

I live near union square and plan on keeping my car nearby. Still figuring some of that out. Sounds like I will have some time with a build slot early next year. 
 

This entire process has reinvigorated my love of cars which was put on hold when I moved to nyc.  I am actually doing my first official track day down at njmp in late august (with my daily driver ). Figured I would try to improve my driving before adding the seven into the mix. 
 

It is great to see such a tight knit group of enthusiasts. 
 

 

[Black Hole]

I use this Schroth system in my car https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/item/profi-ii-asm/fia-4-point and I added the sub belts for use at the track. The (Schroth claimed / theoretical) advantage is it is designed to be used as a four point system and has built in stretch to prevent submarining.) They are available from HMS in MA and they were very good to work with. If you go this route one caution is the original sub belts they sent me were not long enough to reach the Caterham mounting points at the  back of the cockpit (at least for me - I am short and have an SV so it is a long reach). they had no issue providing longer sub belts with plenty of reach. 

[CBuff]

Black hole,

 

Thanks for the heads up. I did read that elsewhere that the reach is longer than most standard crutch belts. Do you have leather s type seats? Are the mounting points for the sun belts the same as the lap belts or additional mounting locations?

[Lotusfan]

Here’s Josh at Rocky Mountain Caterham’s summary which I think is really well thought out…

 

"Ah, the old harness question! For a street Seven driven occasionally on the track... well... it depends mainly on (i) what your track and/or trackday organization requires, and (ii) how your Seven is currently configured.
  
There is one absolute universal rule, however: no 4-point harnesses on track. Most tracks will specifically allow either 3 point inertia reel belts *or* 5/6 point harnesses with anti-submarine straps, but not in between. If a track makes no mention of prohibiting 4-point harnesses, it is still not a good idea to run them on track.

 

If your track and/or trackday organizer requires SFI/FIA dated belts that are in-date, then you'll need to have those installed. (The USA7s.net NJMP even is an example of this requirement.) The 6-point options we typically recommend are the Caterham specific Schroth race harnesses, or the Sabelt 622 formula belts, which are the two that we use and install on our Sevens. In all cases, it is important to order harnesses with the webbing through the tab -- and not the snap-hooks as you'd use in a sedan or production. Be careful when ordering as most harnesses are snap-link by default. This mounting tab allows the use of the Caterham chassis bosses and mounting hardware.

We typically spec 2" belts, or at least 2" shoulder belts, in order to be HANS compatible. We do pull-down shoulder belts and pull-up lap belts, with the crutch straps routing up through sewn loops on the lap straps and being secured where the shoulder belts enter the camlock buckle. If you have lowered floors you'll likely need to get the spacers to allow mounting the crutch straps to the chassis tabs that are at the bottom of the rear bulkhead. (The lap and shoulder belts use the existing 7/16 chassis bosses).

 

If your track and/or trackday organizer does NOT require dated harnesses, but does require a 5/6 point harness with anti-submarine straps, one option you have is to convert your existing Luke-type Caterham 4-point harness to 6 point by using the Caterham crutch strap conversion kit. This only works if you have the Luke-type 4-point belts with the camlock buckle: you can check if your harnesses will accept the 2 point crutch straps as they will have a slot on the bottom of the camlock for the crutch strap to plug into. (Caterham did have a UK "road" 4-point harness that had a standard type spring-button  buckle -- these are for road use only and cannot be converted to a 6-pointer.) 

 

If your track is like our home track (High Plains Raceway) and allows open lapping with either a 3-point inertia reel belt, or a 5/6 point harness, then you have a choice depending on how your Seven is currently specced. If you have the 4-point camlock harnesses, we would add the Caterham crutch strap conversion kit. If you have the leather seats, by the way, the crutch straps run up around the back of the removable bottom bolster and you sit on the straps -- some folks just tuck the crutch straps out of the way under the bolster when not doing trackdays... not that we necessarily advocate that! 

 

For anything more than occasional track days we would go to SFI/FIA dated 6-point harnesses as soon as feasible.

By the way, we use and advocate arm restraints whenever out on track in a Seven. It's a very cost-effective way to ensure your friends won't ever bestow upon you the nickname, "Stumpy."

 

Hopefully this helps with your questions... let me know if I missed any detail questions and I can share anything else we know.

 

Finally, the dreaded-but-necessary disclaimer when discussing any safety equipment: all this should not be gospel. Ultimately it will be your responsibility to determine the rules and requirements that apply to you, and how to comply with them. But this may help further map out some of the paths available in staying strapped to your Seven as you hurtle round track.

 

Josh Robbins
Rocky Mountain Caterham”

[Black Hole]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:37 PM, CBuff said:

Black hole,

 

Thanks for the heads up. I did read that elsewhere that the reach is longer than most standard crutch belts. Do you have leather s type seats? Are the mounting points for the sun belts the same as the lap belts or additional mounting locations?

Josh has a good summary but to answer a couple of your questions - I have the cloth standard seats, which would be similar to the leather for belt routing. I sit on them and just store them under the seat when not in use. And the sub belts do not attach to the lap belt mounting location. There are tabs at the very back of the cockpit at the bottom of the rear bulkhead.