2021 Caterham CSR "CatKong"

[Croc]

23 minutes ago, Renottse said:

Question @Croc about the tractive suspension fine tuning. Will it be the mechanical adjustment only? Or, does Bruce have the ability to make adjustments to the tractive control unit programming?

 

There is always an element of mechanical adjustment.  We cannot change the programming but we can change the presets for the suspension, e.g. soft to hard front to back. The final thinking of how we do this remains undecided but we can see the potential for say a dry setting with neutral to firm setting, or a wet setting (soft all round).    

[Renottse]

Thank you, that answered my question. 
 

 

[IamScotticus]

If I had this car,

all I would do is put clams on it. 

Then watch them buckle.

[Shortshift]

Well - time for an update??  I keep logging in to see what the progress is, so thought I'd ask directly!

 

James

[Croc]

Progress is slow....non-existent is another word.  In between my 180,000 miles on a plane this year in 30 something countries for work, I have been focused on making significant progress on my other project cars - the BMW, the white Holden, the Range Rover and the Cossie Escort.  While great progress has happened there, the Caterham has languished.  Bruce has been focused on his very successful Caterham race series.  He is losing so that might cause him to refocus .   I am planning to regroup with Bruce in person in early December to work out a plan for getting it done in 2023.  

[Croc]

Time for an update and progress has been made!

 

The missing pieces on the Sadev gearbox that were needed to sort out the gear change have now been received and are installed.  This was the source of the over 12 month delay.  

 

 

 

So nothing stopping the gearbox from now being bolted to the completed engine and installed in the car.  Well...maybe Bruce's race season....which is about to kick off.

 

The Tractive suspension is installed and wired in - ready to go.

 

 

 

The ECU adaption to Caterham wiring harness is complete.  Because the ECU was a MBE upgrade over the standard Caterham ECU, a bridge box was needed (mounted on the shelf above the actual ECU) which has the sole role of just plugging into the existing wiring harness.  The extra pin ins/outs are then wired in separately.  

 

 

 

A non-standard ECU was needed anyway as the engine was going to use a bespoke tune rather than a Caterham tune.  The upgraded ECU can then integrate engine and Sadev for engine cut during gear change plus throttle blip on downshift.  Given the hp levels, it was also fortunate the upgraded ECU can handle traction control at the same time and integrate that with the throttle control for the gearbox.  

 

 

Wiring is done - Digital dash and switch gear (following the 620R style).

 

 

The screen on the right is the Tractive suspension control panel.  The two knobs to the left of the screen are the launch and traction control knobs.  The little black round dial to the left of the switch gear is the gear indicator.  The box on the tunnel up under the dash is the suspension ECU.

 

The rats nest of wiring is best seen here.

 

 

 

Its all labelled.  The scuttle is removable with screws rather than rivets so access is easier than normal.  The black round tank in lower region of photo is the air tank to power the pneumatic gear shifts for the paddle shifter.

 

Finally, a way forward is available.  Engine and gearbox install next. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[kayentaskier]

Mike,

Thanks for posting the update. Are you planning to road register CatKong? If so, in what state? Any chance it will be ready in time for the September USA7s HPDE meeting?

Jim

[FE07]

Looking good Mike.

 

With all the mods- looks like you've got any extra 50 lbs just in wiring!

 

Look forward to seeing this one day as I'm sure do you.

 

Jim

[lucky dawg]

Great tour of the updates. Can't wait to hear how it drives.

[fastg]

Croc, what ECU are you using? How are your detecting wheel spin for your traction control, do you have wheel speed sensors? 

 

Graham 

[Croc]

29 minutes ago, fastg said:

Croc, what ECU are you using? How are your detecting wheel spin for your traction control, do you have wheel speed sensors? 

 

Graham 

 

The standard Caterham ECU is a MBE 9A4.  I have gone with an MBE 9A9.  So have full OBDII.  Full digital dash and gearbox integration.  In the last of my photo threads, referring to the third photo, the 9A9 is the box under the shelf.  The box on top is a wiring box that looks like a 9A4 ECU but is really just facilitating the Caterham wiring harness into the ECU I am using.  

 

For wheel sensors, I am using Bosch ones on all 4 wheels.  The May 30, 2021 post shows the custom reluctors and wheel sensor mount sites.  I have a model number for the Bosch sensors somewhere if you need it.  

 

Technically, the wheel speed sensors and the ECU could handle ABS brakes - all we would have to do is buy the Bosch ABS kit and install it on the calipers. While that was contemplated, decision was made not to as the brakes work great as they are so why complicate things any further.  I have adapted the standard Caterham brakes with a proportioning valve but once the brakes are fine-tuned I don't think I will need to touch the valve again.  

[Croc]

3 hours ago, lucky dawg said:

Great tour of the updates. Can't wait to hear how it drives.

 

Given your location, you will have a chance to see it in action.  The plan is testing and shakedown locally in the Seattle area on a friendly track.  Will need to calibrate gearbox shifts, brakes and suspension to set it all up.  

[Croc]

4 hours ago, kayentaskier said:

Mike,

Thanks for posting the update. Are you planning to road register CatKong? If so, in what state? Any chance it will be ready in time for the September USA7s HPDE meeting?

Jim

 

Definitely will be road registered.  Choice of state is a wait and see for now.  To get from my garage to the track is 75 yards of public road so I register all my cars, even the race cars (e.g. the BMW CSL), to be able to trundle to the circuit without needing a trailer.  

 

As for ready by September?   That depends on Bruce's schedule with race season.  Racing comes first for him.  It is possible to be done by then - will he have the time?   I know I will be struggling to find time as I have a ton of travel on the schedule for the rest of the year.  50/50 odds right now.  

 

[Bruce K]

Magnificent work, Croc.  You are like Lewis and Clark, exploring new territory and mapping as you go.  Driving the Kong should be an incredible thrill.

 

I also plate all sporters.  I find that driving on the street familiarizes me with the controls, helps me understand the cars' conventional reactions, assists me in dialing in suspensions and engines, and generally gives me confidence behind the wheel.  Plus, the track, though great fun, is also a time of tension, suspense and rigid timetables, whereas boulevardiering is precisely the opposite - relaxing, with plenty of time to enjoy mechanical sounds, g-forces, and the rush of that occasional hard pull.  Plus, cars like your BMW and Cat Kong, and my Lola and 935 Porsche are sources of inspiration and enjoyment for every knowledgeable spectator.  Regarding that last point, I am fortunate to live only 30 minutes from the midwest epicenter of the automotive universe, Woodward Highway (M1).

Edited June 1, 2023 by Bruce K

[Driverscar]

Hello,

 

this is a very interesting topic. I have skimmed through it and many things have been realised that I also want to tackle. Excellent!

 

Especially the topic of traction control and ABS is very interesting, as I would also like to implement these systems.

 

I've already thought about putting the expansion tank through, but you're ahead of me in pretty much all of them.

I have the 3way Nitron installed.

 

Have you had the control unit tuned to the engine and is it freely programmable?

But you drive the 94mm crankshaft and not the 100mm tractor version or ?

The standard 45 rollerbarrel or other mounted?

 

best regards

 

Michael

 

[Croc]

10 hours ago, Driverscar said:

 

 

Have you had the control unit tuned to the engine and is it freely programmable?

 

But you drive the 94mm crankshaft and not the 100mm tractor version or ?

 

The standard 45 rollerbarrel or other mounted?

 

 

 

ECU is not yet tuned to engine.  We will need to have a session on the dyno/rolling road.  It is not a locked Caterham ECU but one we can freely tune.

 

Its a custom forged 100mm crankshaft.  It is not off the shelf production Ford part.  I believe it derives from a racing program.  

 

Standard Caterham roller barrels.  Same as on a CSR260.  Plenty of air flow for my purposes.  

 

[Driverscar]

For me, the 100mm Crank is way to unsporty. Its not about the quality of the Crank, but the Pistonspeed.
Rev. Limit is 7500RPM, instead of 8150RPM by the 94mm Crank.

Im working on a i4 2.5 Engine theorie with Porsche 991 GT3 RSR internals and similar head design, that can make nearly 10.000RPM and 380 HP

 

Borex x Stroke ca.: 104 x 76  This big Bore make big valves possible.

For this and a vew prototyp Engines i search a Sponsor.

[fastg]

Those RPM numbers are very conservative. I have a 99mm stroke in the Honda and the stock rpm limit is 7.6k I have been revving it to 8.5k for years without issue. My tuner says 9.2K is about as high as I can go and keep it fairly reliable. 

 

Graham  

[Driverscar]

nop, its Math...
with a 99mm Stroke 7,600 is exact 25m/s Pistonspeed.

This is what every piston manufacturer recommends as the maximum. The specific material pairing of cylinder wall and piston determines this value and, of course, the oil. These are microphysical areas that are the way they are. If your tuner says he can turn 9200 with 99mm stroke, he has simply found the solution that all Formula 1 manufacturers have been looking for years... Because with that, your engine would have reached 30m/s. In Formula 1, engines are driven at up to 28m/s, but at immense cost in terms of materials and production. You can certainly turn more than 25m/s for a short time, but you have to be aware that every second of this speed causes real wear!
It's easy to throw out a few numbers at the regulars' table, but if you're intensively involved with engines, or even study engine construction, it's a completely different story.
Cosworth Duratec gives a maximum of 9000 RPM for a 2 litre engine with 83,5mm stroke. And with the 2.3/2.4 engine it is 8200. This is again in line with 25m/s and is the only serious statement!
Everything else is not to be taken seriously in my eyes, unless you want to bore and ream more often.

[Driverscar]

It's OT, but often customers let their engine builders pull the wool over their eyes. It may be that the valve train and cam pairings are designed for speeds for which the basic engine and the data from the stroke are simply not made. That's money down the drain, or you'll find yourself back at the engine builder's very often. Always look at the stroke and the piston speed when choosing the engine, and if that fits, then you can continue with the rest of the work...