ZDDP Anyone?

[IamScotticus]

Who uses this stuff? 

XFlows only?

The Lucas additive says to add the whole 16 Oz bottle to 4.5 qts of oil.  Really?  Does this seem high?

Edited February 21, 2022 by IamScotticus

[Christopher smith]

in my pre-crossflow I used a break-in oil that claimed "high ZZDP". Not sure what high means of course. I would assume the  Lucas additive is a concentrate in a synthetic  or maybe petroleum base, but not sure what % they may use. I continue to use a mix of 10W30 and 20W50 that has ZDDP, again, no idea on concentration but assume any reputable oil chemist would have a reasonable % suited to flat tappet, high performance cams when no catalytic converter is required. Most oils now probably are formulated with no ZDDP to suite modern engines but I guess there is nothing in there that conflicts with a dose of ZDDP.

[Croc]

Some background to what ZDDP does in an oil and why it is desirable.  Post 3 is from a club member who is an oil specialist in his day job.  

 

 

ZDDP is particularly worthwhile on older engines like crossflows.  

 

 

[Dave W]

I do not have a flat tappet cam, but have always added 1 qt of Rotella with ZDDP, to my oil change cocktail. A little ZDDP goes a long way in protection, but even the newer diesel oils have been reduced. 

[fastg]

I run ZDDP my Honda engine, It's done a lot of track days and is still running strong. I get an oil analysis done every year and I am showing no bearing wear, it's cheap insurance. 

 

Graham  

[7Westfield]

Every formula ford engine builder I've dealt with wanted ZDDP oil.

Current guy likes Penn Grade 15-40 syn blend.

So, that goes in the FF, the xflow Westfield, and the tow vehicle--simplifies inventory

 

Charlie

 

[Christopher smith]

What engines are the FF cars using now? My experience with Formula Ford is ancient history now but recall they were relatively stock Cortina crossflows with limited mods as far as intake & compression ratio so were not as highly stressed as some of the competitve 7s that were ( much higher compression, dual 40DCOE etc. operating at very high RPM) . I would guess that some ZDDP would be a great idea for any motor driven hard that does not need to protect the platinum.

[7Westfield]

FF now has 2 engine options, xflow and Honda Fit, hence change to current name of Formula F.

Nobody runs the "cortina" engine anymore, it's all the "uprated" version.  711 block

Very simply put, balance and blueprint is about all you can do, but it's an art form.

Power of 115+ hp common, power falls off over about 6700 rpm

 

The Fit motor runs basically stock, with a restrictor in the intake to tone it down

It's only 1500cc, but I've heard numbers up to about 140hp if you lose the restrictor

and they just don't break

amazing what 50 years of engineering progress will do

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by 7Westfield

[Christopher smith]

Thanks- great info. 115 hp and 6700 seems fairly tame but great fun to drive! I recall hearing the most competitive 1500 cc Cosworth 7 pre-crossflow engines were running 13 to  1 compression cranking out close to 180 hp at 8000+ rpm. Do the Honda motors need ZDDP?

[7Westfield]

No direct knowledge, but I suspect the Fit motor is ok without ZDDP

after all, it's a modern street engine, and AFAIK overhead cams don't need it

[IamScotticus]

reading the  Lucas label,

its says to add some to the "tank" with each fill up.

Assuming they refer to the fuel tank,  does this  ZDDP perform the function of a lead substitute?

[7Westfield]

ZDDP goes in the oil

if they say "tank", they're refering to a dry sump oil tank

 

this may help

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-toolbox/what-is-zddp-benefits-of-zinc-in-oil/30870

[IamScotticus]

They don't neglect the oil,

The oil instructions follow the "tank" instructions.

The oil instruction is to put the whole 16oz bottle in 4.5 qt oil.  Perhaps the product has the qualities of oil with some ZDDP in it.  It is Lucas...

Very sloppy instructions over all.

[JohnCh]

That first paragraph is from their Octane Booster instructions and the fl oz options match that product, not the ZDDP.  Really poor editing on their part to mix the two. 

 

-John

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:56 AM, Christopher smith said:

I recall hearing the most competitive 1500 cc Cosworth 7 pre-crossflow engines were running 13 to  1 compression cranking out close to 180 hp at 8000+ rpm. 

 

Most precrossflows in SCCA FP that I'm aware of are closer to 165-170. 

[Christopher smith]

Sorry , should have been more specific. I am thinking back some years when Series 2  1500 Cosworth ( Cortina power but highly modified) was in D production and perhaps did not have the restrictions that make 1275 MG Midgets now able to be competitive, Actually, at one point Cosworth 7s were stuck in BP, competing with the small block Corvettes. At least on short tracks like Marlboro, MD. they were almost competitive in that class but SCCA moved them back to D. Not sure of the more recent history of course. I was running my 1750 cc Sunbeam Alpine in FP way back then and was always impressed with the 7A (Sprite engined cars in FP) and also being easily passed by the DP Cosworth powered 7s. By the way, is there a big weight penalty now for FP? Not sure if that old saying applies,  "horsepower  wins at the cocktail party but torque wins at the track".

.