Insurance

[CBuff]

Well, I am trying to keep myself busy with ancillary items while my car (Caterham 420r) is in the queue to be built (last I heard June). One item I have been starting on is Insurance. I checked a few instant quote things just to get an idea but thought I would pitch it to the group. Let me know your thoughts or experiences. 

 

I assume with the specialty nature of this most people would go down the classic car insurance route. Most had a default of 2500 mile caps but that seems to be adjustable on many. I would think the reduction in premiums would be worth some of the restrictions/limits etc. While I plan on doing some track days I havent yet done insurance for track only - not sure if any (Hagerty etc) would do a bundle - road and track. Or if that even is a thing, or worth it. (An instant quote from open track for 6 days on an agreed value was crazy high).

 

Some companies that gave me"instant quotes" not sure how close the actual quote would be - they were all roughly similar coverage with agreed value etc. 

 

Grundy - The cheapest

Hagerty - Seemed pricey, roughly 60% more than the others. 

American Collectors Insurance - 20% over Grundy

Heacock Classic - Similar to Grundy

 

Others I came across (but they required getting on the phone which sounds painful at this stage).

Safeco

State Farm

 

I know that some companies - Progressive and and allstate I believe sub contract out to Hagerty.

 

I think some of you have plans that drop coverage down to "storage rates" for the winter months - removing the collision coverage. I live in New York so there will certainly be idle months during the winter. 

 

As I get closer to seeing this car and getting VIN numbers etc, I will start the phone calls and sifting through things. Thought I would open it up to the group to hear any suggestions or experiences.

 

Thanks!

 

[Vovchandr]

I have state farm in NY and drop it into storage mode for winter rates, I keep the plate and reg throughout. Agreed value. 

 

It's more expensive per month than haggerty but much cheaper during off months. Comes out about a wash in the end but state farm is much easier for me to deal with. 

 

 Are you in the city?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Vovchandr

[CBuff]

I live in the city. The thought is I will eventually have a residence outside the metro area. We will see what comes first. 

[wemtd]

I previously had collectors via USAA (discount rate). Then consolidated all our insurances with a local broker for a collective discount. (IIRC others have had similar experiences).

So I’d say (especially if you need homeowners insurance) to check with local broker to see if they can beat their competitors.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by wemtd

[Croc]

 

The 4 you have listed are Managing General Agents.  They may look like an insurance company but they are not - they just have the authority to bind a policy on behalf of an insurance company behind them to provide the policy.  Hagerty should be The Philadelphia Companies for NY State (same as NJ).  Not sure who the others are using?  Each state will be set up differently as insurance is regulated and priced on a state by state basis.  Even the policies will be different for terms and conditions on a state by state basis.  

 

The difference in rates reflects how badly (or not) they want the insurance business.  Grundy has always been a discounter compared to Hagerty but they also have a harder claim process if you ever need to make a claim.  

 

State Farm usually will not touch a Caterham in the NYC metro area - it always goes for specialist underwriting.  USAA is more welcoming but still the same specialist approach.  

 

If you mention you also want track insurance, your pool of insurers will disappear.  State Farm and USAA do not want to insure you if you also do track days.  I think Hagerty is the only one that does both.  Check Lockton - they do track insurance and may also do classic/collectible car insurance.  

 

Chubb Insurance will do classic/collectible cars through their Masterpiece program, where you would consolidate your full insurance program (e.g. primary home, beach weekender, daily car, etc).  Depending on your personal circumstances a High-Net-Worth insurer might be a solution but you need a good broker to access the companies that specialize in that market (Pure, AIG, Chubb, Hub Intl).   But I find Hagerty is usually cheaper on an unbundled basis in most states.

 

One thing that will change your premium rate quote significantly is garaging.  All are likely to want individual enclosed lock up garage.  Hagerty and Grundy specify it when I had insurance with them.  A common garage with no separated lock up ability will be a problem for them.  Read the fine print on amount of mileage you are allowed to put on the car.  Grundy used to make me notarize an annual declaration that I was not driving more than 3000 miles a year.  

 

If you are in NJ, I have a very good insurer broker I use that understands nut job automotive hobbies and is able to insure the damn near impossible things at reasonable cost.  

 

If anyone suggests a Lloyd's policy then run away, as it will be very expensive and not much value if you ever need to make a claim.  

 

 

[CBuff]

I saw the garage requirements for most and will have that sorted by 2024 (along with my own piece of mind that this car is safe). I will check in with my current insurer and see what bundling things may do.  Then as I get closer can shop around. 
 

thanks for the info.  As always there is a wealth of knowledge here.  

[Vovchandr]

One thing I will say is that there were some insurances that were recommended that were VERY limited in what you could do and it scares me from being insured by them

 

 

 

Condonskelly was one of them and they were very specific that I couldn't do "normal driving" in the car. IE could go to and from work or school or shop or use it as as substitute vehicle. 

 

Considering my work is very close to my house and there are shopping centers and grocery stores everywhere I was afraid that if an accident happened id have to be arguing with them on the case use basis for why I was out. Not to mention I do take my car to work about 6 times a year.  

 

Be very aware of nuance on policies now as you don't want to be dealing with the minutia later when it matters more and your car is broken and money is on the line. 

 

A lot of those limiting driving and miles policies will stipulate that it has to be a weekend type car that goes to shows and events and cant be driven as a normal car

Edited March 30, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Croc]

6 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Condonskelly was one of them 

 

37 years in the insurance business and I had never heard of this name - had to do the research.  

 

Condon Skelly are owned by NSM - a managing general agent.  NSM also own the classic car insurance marketing agent brands of JC Taylor, American Collectors, and Heacock.  Not sure which insurer(s) they use to actually issue the insurance policies?   Even though NSM own all those brands, the pricing plus terms & conditions will likely differ for each so still worth comparison shopping.  

[Vovchandr]

2 hours ago, Croc said:

 

37 years in the insurance business and I had never heard of this name - had to do the research.  

 

Condon Skelly are owned by NSM - a managing general agent.  NSM also own the classic car insurance marketing agent brands of JC Taylor, American Collectors, and Heacock.  Not sure which insurer(s) they use to actually issue the insurance policies?   Even though NSM own all those brands, the pricing plus terms & conditions will likely differ for each so still worth comparison shopping.  

 

That's a big woof if you've never heard of them. All I know is the quote was friendly but the clear definition of their terms of use was not friendly to my needs. I specifically asked for limitations to make sure I don't run into issues in the future. She had to review my questions "with the director" to see if travel to work is covered. "Normal driving" was explicitly excluded. 

 

It came up in some discussions online, don't recall if those discussions were 7 related or just general recommendation for classic type cars. 

[panamericano]

I have Hagerty and I'm very happy with them.  I believe that their track day coverage is on a day to day basis, so you pay for what you use, when you are going to use it.

[Vovchandr]

34 minutes ago, panamericano said:

I have Hagerty and I'm very happy with them.  I believe that their track day coverage is on a day to day basis, so you pay for what you use, when you are going to use it.

 

I heard the typical track day insurance fee is 1% of value of vehicle. Does that seem to track?

[CBuff]

In my research that 1% sounds about right. As my 7 price spirals upward that starts to be a decent chunk of change. But I guess the alternative isn’t cheap either. 

[Croc]

I used to buy a book of 8 days from Lockton and then use them one by one over the course of the year.  The average price reduces that way compared with buying a separate policy for each event.    

[inchoate]

I also use Hagerty for my 7 and a bunch of old bikes.  I have no complaints but I've never had to make a claim.  They've always been easy to deal with.

[lucky dawg]

Checking with the company that currently insures your home, cars, and whatever other policies you have is a good start. They may be willing to work with you based on your history and the desire to not risk losing you as a customer.

[BirkinBernie]

I've had American Modern collector car insurance on the Birkin since I built it in 2001.  It specifies no commuting, must have a daily driver, must be garaged and 3000 miles/year max.  When I went on the USA 2005 tour (4000 miles), they covered the extra miles for a small fee the amount of which I have forgotten.  I had one claim in 2005 when a ni-cad pack for a camera set fire to the boot.  Their response to the claim was outstanding.  I now have 4 cars on that policy, and the total premium is $459/year.  They even included my '86 MR2 for a reasonable value.

 

I have no input for track day insurance - never used it.

 

Happy Motoring! 

[Arahant]

Hey guys, I have a question. I need insurance for my car, but a lot of classic/sports car insurers say that I should have daily car, which I don’t.
 

Does anyone know an insurance which will insurance a sports car who doesn’t own a daily car?

 

thanks

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, Arahant said:

Hey guys, I have a question. I need insurance for my car, but a lot of classic/sports car insurers say that I should have daily car, which I don’t.
 

Does anyone know an insurance which will insurance a sports car who doesn’t own a daily car?

 

thanks

 

Pretty sure state farm doesn't care and I just did agreed value.

 

That's actually one of the biggest reasons why I have them, they didn't have any limitations.

[Arahant]

Also, a follow up. Do I need the NYS assigned VIN to get the insurance?

 

I’m trying to get an insurance with the Caterham manufacturer’s VIN, but it doesn’t seem to be sufficient.

[slowdude]

Are you filling out yourself on a website etc? Or using a broker?

 

My daily is not registered to me, and insurance is an umbrella. Hagerty was able to insure my caterham as a regular passenger car (regular plates etc.).

 

Going with a broker for the 2nd year cut my insurance in half and increased the policy limits. I'm insured for an agreed upon value.

 

Tbh, if you're in NYC, that may be why the traditional insurers are giving you the run around.