FIRST-TIME 7 PURCHASE ADVICE WANTED

[lowflyer]

When size is a major consideration, I would include the Stalker in your list of possibles.

 

I'm 6'2" and over 250 with a size 11 1/2 shoe. The Stalker is the only one that fit me, as opposed to me fitting it.

 

While not as "pure" in its replication of the original Lotus 7, there are some major benefits to owning a car with an engine, transmission and rear axle assembly from an American made truck.

 

Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

:cheers:

[Avery Waterman]

Many thanks to everyone who welcomed and shared with me as a newcomer. Today I had the good fortune of purchasing SteveT's red ali Cat! Some may recall it spearheading the 7/7/07 Tail of the Dragon, while others can view it on Member Rides in March, 2008. Steve patiently spent hours reminiscing, reviewing, and even chauffeuring, for which I am grateful. The 125-mile drive from Charlottesville to Williamsburg under mild sunny wispy skies was glorious - except possibly for the 90 mph stretch amid 3-lane tractor-trailer and other heavy traffic on I-95 around Richmond. The Cat was more solid and powerful than imagined, and it nestling about me felt like a veritable extension of my body; not to mention the aesthetics of gazing upon the long bonnet, polished headlights and pivoting wheels. My decision to bid farewell to my 911 and Boxster for this Se7en was spot on. Even my 69 year-old mother raved about her evening guet-passenger ride upon my return. Added bonus was me inheriting the Cat's urestricted Virginia title and registration. Wish I did not have to turn in and instead could keep on ridng into the night. Thank you all again. P.S. My nickname is Sandy, so guess it is Sandy's 7 now.

[slngsht]

Congradulations. Steve's seven is an amazing car. Classy, clean... well, you know all of that first hand now.

 

Since you're not far from Steve, you'll have to pick him up and join us in the mid atlantic cruises.

[jbanker]

Avery,

 

Congratulations!!! You can't go wrong with a Caterham! I know Steve is going to miss it...But, he will end up with another great ride soon.

 

Jack

[sparecr]

Congrats, nice car, but why is everyone selling?

[11Budlite]

Congrats Sandy, Steve's car was a great choice!!

 

"Congrats, nice car, but why is everyone selling?" - I don't get it either, John. But the way I look at it, we've added two more se7en crazies to the group, and Steve and Al will be back in the driver's seat before too long...

 

Bruce :7drive:

[cobramon]

Took an '03 nice Birkin S3 in trade and it is available.

[Mandurath]

Pics!

[evotell]

My suggestion is either buy a Lotus 7 or a Caterham most of the others are close to worthless when second hand the Caterham and the Lotus hardly depreciate.

 

Terry

[Al N.]

Terry-

 

Although I am a former Caterham owner, I don't know if I'd say the "other" marques are "worthless" on the second-hand market. In fact, I'm sure a second hand Stalker retains much more of its "cost to build" value than a Caterham.

 

I think any of the "still in production" cars hold their value about the same once the initial depreciation hit kicks in.

 

I do agree with you about the Loti, though.

 

-Al

[slomove]

My suggestion is either buy a Lotus 7 or a Caterham most of the others are close to worthless when second hand the Caterham and the Lotus hardly depreciate.

 

Terry

 

Without wanting to start a meaningless brand related discussion, I want to dispute this claim.

 

From what I have seen all brands have a serious depreciation from new (obviously that is not an issue for a Lotus 7). But it applies even more to very high spec cars (CSR or R500 come to mind). However, once through the first depreciation, the values become rather stable for all of them.

 

Usually you will have to pay a bit more for a used Caterham than for a similarly spec'd Birkin or Westfield or other make. But then, somebody had to pay a lot more for the Caterham to start with.

 

So, my recommendation is to drive a few cars, look at the quality, see which you like best and that you can pay. And, if you are not dependent on the heritage aspects just don't worry about the badge.

 

Gert

[MHKflyer52]

My suggestion is either buy a Lotus 7 or a Caterham most of the others are close to worthless when second hand the Caterham and the Lotus hardly depreciate.

 

Terry

 

Ouch that is harsh.

 

I would agree that the Caterhams and a true Lotus 7 would seem to hold their value better only due to their history.

I also think that if one looks at the other manufactures Birkin, Westfield, Ultra's, etc. that are out their one will find they all have their strong points as they all have their weakness.

I personally have driven the following; Caterham's, Westfield's, a Birkin S3, a real Lotus 7 S2, Locost 7 and my own homebuilt replica 7 and if I had the money to purchase another 7 I would most likely get a Caterham SV, as I find it to be a bit more refined over what I have at the moment due to it having all of the weather gear and an interior of sorts and the manufactures history and quality of parts although the Birkin S3 would be nice also along with the Westfield.

Don't get me wrong I am very happy with my car and would have a hard time parting with it if I had too and have not considered it at all even when it has broken down on me.

 

[S1Steve]

Terry,

Trying to make new friends I see.I think your statement of "Worthless" is way out of line. There is a strong surge in the market for all types of 7s. I agree that some are more in demand. I think it comes down to money, and how much a person has to spend.Thats the good thing, lots of different 7's to choose from, all hardly WORTHLESS.

 

Steve Novelli

[slngsht]

My suggestion is either buy a Lotus 7 or a Caterham most of the others are close to worthless when second hand the Caterham and the Lotus hardly depreciate.

 

Terry

 

Terry, I think the original poster is looking at cars that are already built / used. So, the "worthless" argument - even if it were true, doesn't really apply. If the others are worthless, he'll be buying them for next to nothing - I don't see how that's a bad thing.

 

The only worthless seven is one that

a- you can't fit into

b- you can't register, if you want to drive it on the road

c- doesn't have the features you want, or

d- is poorly built or totally unreliable.

 

 

[Mondo]

Not to :_deadhorse:...

but it seems that the first time buyer takes the big hit no matter what the brand, then things level off for all the main brands.

And if you look at the price of new Caterhams vs used an argument could be made that they take the biggest hit of all as they are now so expensive.

The good thing is there's a price range for all and you'll probably get little depreciation on any high quality 7 if you buy a previously owned one.

 

 

[JohnCh]

Terry,

 

Given that you own a business that bills itself as "Canada's only used Lotus/Caterham 7 specialist" don't you think it is a little self serving for you to post a comment like that?

 

-John

[evotell]

OK may be my comments were a little, shall we say explosive. If your offended I apologise

 

In the 35 years that I have owned Caterhams/Lotus 7 I have had many opportunities to drive Westfields, Locost and Birkins, all loved by their owners, at the risk of offending again, I have to say that when it comes to quality the moderen replica doesn't even compare to a Caterham, not at any level.

 

I agree that there is a price premium when buying a Caterham, yet on the other hand you have the real item and not a budget imitation.

 

OFFENCE NOT INTENTED

 

 

:banghead:

[Kitcat]

Given that virtually everything that can break on a car has broken on my Caterham (Or is in the process of breaking, is thinking of breaking, or will break in the next 12 months:)), I gotta say I love my car but it would be very hard for an "imitation" to be less reliable.

 

And getting replacement parts is an iffy, slow, and always expensive proposition.

 

And when I compare specific components of my car with their counterpart on, say a Birkin, it seems that the Birkin is at least my car's equal (if not superior).

 

Plus the used car prices do show that after an initial hit, all prices stabilize. The reason I am driving a Caterham today is that it was the cheapest Seven I could find when i was looking (at $22.5K). If a "worthless" Westfield had been available, I would have snapped it up.

[slngsht]

evotell, how are you defining quality? specifically, what are the specific areas where Caterham is above everyone else? I can understand your point about heritage, but are you also claiming that S1 through S4 Lotus 7s are of higher build quality than what you can buy from WCM / Stalker / Westfield / Birkin? Does this higher quality include better reliability? durability? factory support? Better availability of parts? I know of a handful of local caterham owners, and just in the last 3 years I have known them, there have been 2 caterham 6 speed gearbox failures. and it's not like you can drop it off at the dealer and pick it up next week. Car is down for extended periods of time. How long does it take to get Caterham's heated windshields on a customer car from the day the order is placed at the factory?

 

 

Your original argument was that Caterham holds its value much better. Now everything else is just inferior. To avoid another long series of responses, you should qualify your statements... like you can buy a brand new caterham for 59K, and here is a fine used example for 45K... or here is WHY caterham is a higher quality product. People only get offended when there is an unsubstantiated statement.

 

Take a look at the abuse that Kevin and company have subjected their ultralite to, and how in event after event Stalkers (with their very low tech pushrod V6's) clean up at autocrosses. To me, these provide real world proof that the products sold by these companies are not just inferior things you buy when you can't pony up for a Caterham.

 

 

 

 

 

[spotcheck]

My learning curve is levelling out a bit, as I move toward eventual ownership, and I can cull the list a bit:

 

Lotus 7 - my mechanical skills not up to par

Cat classic - my wide butt not down to par

Cat CSR - my bank account not even in the game.

 

I have been able to start a second list of potential sources with whom I might have a hard time doing business.

 

The thing I value most about this group (in addition to knowledge and humor) is objectivity and integrity.