Build vs. buy debate

[Twerd68]

New member, long time reader and lurker. Here is the debate I'd love to trigger (and apologize in advance if it has been covered before or if I touch on any sensitive topics): what do you argue as the key pluses and minuses in the build vs. buy debate?

 

My personal debate is between purchasing a completed Brunton(and probably a v6 as that's usually what is available like the lovely car being sold by member Pat right now) and building a new LS3 powered M-spec. The later probably costs twice as much but you build it exactly as you want -- if you manage to finish it.

 

My side question for anyone who chooses to respond is: how long did you take to build your car? I've hear of the mythical 3 month build (by someone with a team and no job apparently) as well as the 18 year build. I'm trying to put a realistic expectation around an untrained guy who is doing his research and will likely get to pound away for an hour or two each night.

 

Great group you all have here. One way or another I plan to become a part of the USA7 elite .

[Manshoon11]

If I were you I'd Jump on pat's stalker in a heartbeat. At that price, you can do any customization and still be way under the cost of a fresh build.

[MightyMike]

If I were you I'd Jump on pat's stalker in a heartbeat. At that price, you can do any customization and still be way under the cost of a fresh build.

 

Agree completely - Pat's Stalker is one heck of a deal. Wish I had extra cash and garage space.

[speedwagon]

In this market; definitely buy! There are some real bargains out there, and you can get all the personal satisfaction you need from the final sorting to your tastes. And as an afterthought- I bought and now have more time in mods and rebuilds than it would have taken to build, these things are labor intensive if you use/abuse them. Last thought; the v6 stalker has plenty of get up and go, and if later you want more ad a turbo to the roots for a real v8 killer.

[Twerd68]

Fascinating answers -- particularly given that it comes from guys who build! Thanks for those thoughts. Any takers on sharing how long their builds took?

[MightyMike]

My Stalker build took almost 1-year to complete due to a couple build-related setbacks and other stuff. My first seven was a fully-built used Birkin.

[DeanG]

Se7ens are a bit like boats. People tend to buy the boat they think they want rather than the boat that fits how they actually use a boat. It would probably be a good thing to experience Se7en ownership and tune your desire before going fully custom.

 

One other thing. You might have noticed how these cars are never actually finished. There is always something you want to do to them.

 

Good luck.

[coffee break]

When I was in my hunt for a 7, I was asked this thought provoking question. Which do you want to do more, build or drive?

My answer was drive.

[Twerd68]

Thanks Coffee. Scott Minehart asked me the same question and I gave him the same answer albeit qualified as I also love building stuff. All great feedback. I am also revisiting the idea of a roller. My v8 over v6 preference comes from the following experience: whenever I drive a fast four or six I have a great time when driving fast. But when I drive a fast v8 I also have fun rumbling slowly along.

[Twerd68]

So true, Dean G. I come from a boat family and totally relate. I had the thought that building and knowing the car so intimately would make repair and improvement a bit "easier."

[Toyotus 7]

Getting back to your original question, if you've only got an hour or two a night to put a car together, then i would buy a built one and enjoy driving it while spending a smaller amount of time tweaking things. Perhaps not as rewarding in some ways, but far rewarding in others. Life is short. Enjoy it.

[oilteq]

I purchased a used Birkin last June, knowing the clutch needed to be replaced. It is a good car that was very poorly assembled, and subsequent repairs involved shortcuts. Starting with a Birkin roller would not have taken any longer than disassembling and reassembling my current car, but it would have cost more. I should have it done this spring.

[MB7]

What will make you happy long term? I own 2 Stalkers. The first was a Super Stalker I purchased 2 years ago, it is an awesome track car. I have recently decided to upgrade to an M-Spec LS3 which Scott Minehart is currently building. I've owned many capable track cars over the years, Nissan GTR, Ariel Atom, in my opinion the Stalker is the most fun for the least money. I suggest you build an M-Spec LS-3, you should have a blast with it.

[powderbrake]

I suggest you buy. It will cost less, and you can spend the difference on upgrades, new paint, all kinds of stuuf, and while working on it you get the "build" experience.

 

If you haven't driven a seven, you can't appreciate the awesomness of the car, and the performance. A V6 Stalker is FAST, and you can always supercharge it. The v8 version is mind blowing..... BUT can you use all that HP?

 

Yeah, I know, you can never have too much HP, but in reality unless you regularly track the car, you can't use all the HP. I have an Ultralite, and have tracked it a bit, and won a few trophies, but my skill levels won't let me use all the performance my car has.

 

Whatever you deide upon, you are in for a lot of fun.

[Twerd68]

What will make you happy long term? I own 2 Stalkers. The first was a Super Stalker I purchased 2 years ago, it is an awesome track car. I have recently decided to upgrade to an M-Spec LS3 which Scott Minehart is currently building. I've owned many capable track cars over the years, Nissan GTR, Ariel Atom, in my opinion the Stalker is the most fun for the least money. I suggest you build an M-Spec LS-3, you should have a blast with it.

 

That's exactly the car I'm looking at if I build. Is yours to be an xl? I can squeeze heat and ac into an xl and turn it into a three season car.

[xcarguy]

Twerd68,

 

Welcome to this group of great (sometimes, brutally honest) car enthusiasts. I personally don't think you will find any other car that offers the most 'bang for the buck' than a Seven-inspired car. Be it real or replica, factory or kit built, powered by a four, six or eight cylinder power plant, these cars are FUN! PERIOD! I've owned a Birkin and my current car, a Stalker; both, a blast to drive.

 

As for building vs. buying, lots of good responses here. One of the most popular topics concerning such debates is that of money. Hands down, buying an already built (used) Seven is the most cost effective way to go. As for the reward of building your own car (time permitting), there can be as much reward in taking a well built car (or even a poorly built, but well designed car) and making it your own.

 

My personal story is a bit different than most. I currently own a Stalker (chassis #85) that I first built to about 80% complete and sold in 2007 due to an unexpected job change. When I sold the car, it was sporting an SC V6. When I purchased the car back in 2012, it had an LS6. After purchasing the car, I drove and enjoyed it for the rest of the summer and then spent the winter making it mine . . . again. Since having this car back in my possession, I've made many changes to the car and those changes are documented in my build log on the Stalker V6 Gallery (see link in my signature). My build log reflects, in a sense, both sides of much of what has been debated here; pages one through four of the log document the original build while pages four and five reveal the car as it first appeared once I took possession of it for the second time as well as the changes I've made to the car since then. In short, I have found (personally) just as much reward in making changes to this car as I did when I first built it to near completion.

 

Having said all this, it will come down to being a personal choice. I have owned several specialty cars and have built all of them with the exception of the last three I've purchased (three, that is, if you include the second purchase of the Stalker). If there is a pro for building your own car initially, it's the intimacy you will have with knowing the car, but intimacy with any car can be developed through maintenance, care and making any desired changes. My very humble advise would be to purchase an already-built car, enjoy driving the car (I enjoy driving now more than I do building) and make changes along the way to suit your taste, needs, etc. After this, if you ever decide you want to build your own car, you will have an excellent foundation for what you want in that build.

 

If I were considering a supercharged V6 Stalker, there are two cars I would look at (possibly three); one is the car Pat has for sale on this site, one is currently on eBay and the other is a car that I know of that may be coming up for sale. If interested in the third car, send me a PM and I'll pass on the info I have. All these cars are excellent examples. And you can always swap the V6 for the LSx of your choice sometime on down the road.

 

Anyway, my two cents worth. Good luck, and once again, welcome aboard. :seeya:

Edited January 5, 2014 by xcarguy

[MB7]

That's exactly the car I'm looking at if I build. Is yours to be an xl? I can squeeze heat and ac into an xl and turn it into a three season car.

 

Yes, Scott Minehart is building me an XL with a 480Hp crate motor. I plan on keeping this car for the long haul so having Scott build the car was a no brainer for me, his experience and understanding of the Stalker is second to none.

[Twerd68]

Twerd68,

 

Welcome to this group of great (sometimes, brutally honest) car enthusiasts. I personally don't think you will find any other car that offers the most 'bang for the buck' than a Seven-inspired car. Be it real or replica, factory or kit built, powered by a four, six or eight cylinder power plant, these cars are FUN! PERIOD! I've owned a Birkin and my current car, a Stalker; both, a blast to drive.

 

As for building vs. buying, lots of good responses here. One of the most popular topics concerning such debates is that of money. Hands down, buying an already built (used) Seven is the most cost effective way to go. As for the reward of building your own car (time permitting), there can be as much reward in taking a well built car (or even a poorly built, but well designed car) and making it your own.

 

My personal story is a bit different than most. I currently own a Stalker (chassis #85) that I first built to about 80% complete and sold in 2007 due to an unexpected job change. When I sold the car, it was sporting an SC V6. When I purchased the car back in 2012, it had an LS6. After purchasing the car, I drove and enjoyed it for the rest of the summer and then spent the winter making it mine . . . again. Since having this car back in my possession, I've made many changes to the car and those changes are documented in my build log on the Stalker V6 Gallery (see link in my signature). My build log reflects, in a sense, both sides of much of what has been debated here; pages one through four of the log document the original build while pages four and five reveal the car as it first appeared once I took possession of it for the second time as well as the changes I've made to the car since then. In short, I have found (personally) just as much reward in making changes to this car as I did when I first built it to near completion.

 

Having said all this, it will come down to being a personal choice. I have owned several specialty cars and have built all of them with the exception of the last three I've purchased (three, that is, if you include the second purchase of the Stalker). If there is a pro for building your own car initially, it's the intimacy you will have with knowing the car, but intimacy with any car can be developed through maintenance, care and making any desired changes. My very humble advise would be to purchase an already-built car, enjoy driving the car (I enjoy driving now more than I do building) and make changes along the way to suit your taste, needs, etc. After this, if you ever decide you want to build your own car, you will have an excellent foundation for what you want in that build.

 

If I were considering a supercharged V6 Stalker, there are two cars I would look at (possibly three); one is the car Pat has for sale on this site, one is currently on eBay and the other is a car that I know of that may be coming up for sale. If interested in the third car, send me a PM and I'll pass on the info I have. All these cars are excellent examples. And you can always swap the V6 for the LSx of your choice sometime on down the road.

 

Anyway, my two cents worth. Good luck, and once again, welcome aboard. :seeya:

 

Great stuff. I know your car well from the Brunton website and from the YouTube videos racing. It is one of my favorite builds with the front wing. I also recall the NJ Stalker on sale recently. Beautiful Scott build. It seems to be struggling to find a permanent home, though. I wonder why. Don't people realize these are four wheeled motorcycles? Can you shoot me a private note wrt the third car? In all candor I am probably looking at a Feb/March purchase timeframe while the kitchen is being remodeled.

[Twerd68]

One more thought: anyone ever see any LS Stalkers for sale?

[xcarguy]

Twerd68,

 

Here's a photo of the third car we spoke about; SC V6. As for V8 Stalkers coming up for sale, I've only personally seen two thus far; the one I purchased back from Mike Sharkey and the one John Meyer recently had up for sale.