Dates on titles?

[Timothy Keith-Lucas]

For example, there is a 1998 Westfield on the market at present titled as a 1960 Westfield. Could someone explain this to me? Are there ways that a pre-dated title can be abused? This particular example includes a multitude of parts that simply didn't exist in 1960, so it's not a nuts and bolts replica. 

[MV8]

Every State has their own rules on the initial titling but usually treat transfers the same. Generally not debated but in my experience, large, metro dmvs don't seem to follow any known rules.

[mrmustang]

Up until the early 2K's, most states would use whatever came close in their system VIN wise. If someone titled their car as a 1960, 1965, 1970, etc using their cars VIN, and the basic VIN dynamics was already in the system, that is what they defaulted to. Some states, in the case of my 2003, did not have a Caterham style VIN in their system to work with, and issued their own state VIN tag to supersede the factory issued VIN. Both are now on the car, I'm not likely to rock the boat to get it retitled under the original VIN.

Now, that is not to say others have used an earlier year designation to circumvent paying higher personal property taxes that quite a few states collect on vehicles, motorcycles, and boats (SC being one of them).

 

Bill

[Timothy Keith-Lucas]

So, basically, the new owner visited DMV and claimed a wildly inaccurate date of manufacture, and DMV, never having seen a Caterham or the weird VIN on it, thusly unable to challenge the claim, goes with the flow?  Hmmmmm.

[Black Hole]

In the sate of CT (which is a difficult state for registration) I was able to register my car as a Lotus 7 Replica and was allowed to select the year of the car it replicates. So my 2009 7 is registered as a 1967. Perfectly legal in CT and being registered as over 25 years old results in a tax valuation of $500 and essentially waives the high property tax we pay on cars. 

[mrmustang]

17 minutes ago, Timothy Keith-Lucas said:

So, basically, the new owner visited DMV and claimed a wildly inaccurate date of manufacture, and DMV, never having seen a Caterham or the weird VIN on it, thusly unable to challenge the claim, goes with the flow?  Hmmmmm.

No, you misunderstood what I posted, if a VIN format from another Caterham is already in the system, whether it was from coming in to the state from another, or working off the MSO/MCO as new, the computer system (early computers were very rudimentary at best) defaults to that format as well. If nothing is in the system, generally speaking, the paperwork was sent to that states "special titles division", which would then make calls to other state(s) DMV/MVS offices to see if they have come across such a car in their past (remember phones where the lifeline of every company before the internet), or dissected the MCO/MSO/previous title until they could make it work in their system.

I've told the story elsewhere of being at a West Palm Beach Barrett Jackson auction in the 90's and buying an early RHD Series 1 Lotus 7 (Kent motor powered with two weber carbs) being sold as a kit car because the word "kit" was notated on a certain west coast state title (ca), but it had the correct VIN on the title as well. $1,300 for the car, $520 for enclosed shipping from Florida to NJ. The deal of the century at that time......Took me 6 months of working with the NJ special titles division (still in the same office on State Street today) to get the word "kit" removed from the title..........Today I'm less likely to rock the boat, and I'm just happy to have my 2003 SV titled here in SC.

 

Bill

[Timothy Keith-Lucas]

Wow!  Thanks so much for the clarification and the story. 

 

Computers? I remember programming my engineering homework in Fortran on cards. IBM computers of the era came with a hook used to pull mangled cards out of the works. 

[Timothy Keith-Lucas]

Black Hole, your example is a clear explanation, too.  Thank you.

[jimmylukeii]

NC is the same as (or similar to) CT. Where state law allows, it is an extremely nice benefit for taxes and emissions.

 

Those laws are why you see lots of 1965 Cobra titles.

[panamericano]

Dates?  You ain't seen nothing.  How did they get this registered?  How did they even get it into the USA?  Show only?  Now road legal.  Duty paid?  I've brought in a lot of cars, but this is amazing to me.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2023-bac-mono-r/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2025-01-30

[CharlesG]

7 minutes ago, panamericano said:

Dates?  You ain't seen nothing.  How did they get this registered?  How did they even get it into the USA?  Show only?  Now road legal.  Duty paid?  I've brought in a lot of cars, but this is amazing to me.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2023-bac-mono-r/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2025-01-30

Even more amazing is that it was done in California.

[mrmustang]

1 minute ago, CharlesG said:

Even more amazing is that it was done in California.

If followed to the letter California's "SB100" is the key. With the SPCN 0000 and no year listed on the title, this is exactly how they got the car legally titled.

 

 

Bill