Should we attend LOG 31 or aim for a National USA7s Meet in 2011?

[Croc]

My first LOG was an interesting experience. I met friends from the USA7s and Lotus Enthusiasts Organization (LEO) of NY/NJ and made new friends from other chapters of the Lotus Limited family. Unfortunately the experience was not all positive. There was an overt tone of hostility being shown to the “modern” Sevens group by the “classic” Sevens owners. I tried to talk with three owners of “classic” sevens – after all I used to own and race a 1965 Series 2. I was either rudely ignored, had them walk away from me without talking or told to my face that “only Lotus’s should be here.” They ended my attempt to be friendly. The single exception to this rudeness I found was a lovely couple from Boston who demonstrated at the banquet dinner that you can have friendly people owning older model Sevens who respect “modern” Sevens owners. I had a great time with them and they represented the positive and inclusive attitude and respectful conduct I expected a Lotus gathering to display and that all the leaders of Lotus Limited set an example for. The negative “classic” Seven’s attitude also seemed to correlate with 2 cars having a Simple Sevens sticker on the back. Very disappointing.

I don’t think I was the only USA7’s person who found this negative attitude from the classic “Sevens” group. This negativity towards “modern” Sevens was NOT shown by other LOG30 people who owned Exige, Elise, Esprit, Elan, etc. Nor was it shown by my local Lotus Group - LEO. On the contrary I found those owners friendly, welcoming and happy to chat. The contrast in conduct and manners was massive.

I accept that the “classic” Sevens group have a different philosophy to us USA7s members – that is their personal view and I respect that and enjoy their outlook towards their cars. However, their philosophy should not be polluted by poor manners and disrespect towards those not sharing their philosophy on cars.

Pretending to be a cynic for a moment, were the “modern” (or USA7s for want of a better term) Sevens there just to make up the numbers and help make some money? Banished to Siberia on the concours lot and subject to petty rudeness by one class of Lotus owners, I could stretch to that conclusion.

So what about a National USA7s Meet in 2011 instead of LOG 31 in Las Vegas in October? We would probably make the classic Seven owners group very happy.

 

Over to all of you to persuade me that I am wrong...

Edited October 11, 2010 by Croc
spelling fixed

[Ruadhd2]

Croc. I have to agree with you. I was only at LOG30 for a couple of hours and spent it on the concourse taking pictures. I had to go to a funeral in Charlottesville. I talked to a couple of "classic" 7 owners in the hotel parking lot prior to the concourse and found them to be a little chilly, even snobby. I also found it weird that all the modern 7 variants were lined up at the far end of the parking lot. So, it wasn't just you. I also found non "classic" owners of other Lotuses, like Elises etc. to be very interested in pictures of my rotary Rotus (which was still at RP Performance at Summit Point getting a new transmission). Frankly, I find the classic Lotuses to be lovely collectibles, and all praise to Colin Chapman, Nearn and the gang, but the cars are a whole lot more rickety, finnicky, tight, and impractical compared to more modern variants, which are just as pretty. Also, they all channel the ghost of Lord Lucas.

[MightyMike]

Snobbery amongst fellow kit car owners?

 

I'd perhaps be a little standoffish if someone showed up to a Ferrari gathering with a Fiero "Ferrari" replica, but we're talking about Sevens!

 

I'm definitely interested in a national USA7s meet.

[Ruadhd2]

We could have our own national show but always go to LOG as Salon De Refuses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_des_Refus%C3%A9s).

 

After all, the 7 was an improvisation. Cars were cobbled together the last minute for customers and parts were borrowed from all sorts of vehicles. The very idea of a 7

was experimentation from the beginning. Chapman would be disappointed to see his concept fail to evolve. So many high tech improvements keep the car sparse and light, yet better functioning, and oh my goodness, so much faster. Honor the originals as the great elders but keep on keepin' on.

[MightyMike]

Well stated

[scannon]

I'm sorry to hear about that attitude. I attended LOG27 and didn't run into any of that. All Sevens, Lotus and LSIS were in one area, in front of the Elise/Exige group. I talked with some owners of Lotus 7s and all were friendly.

 

The Lotus Mark 6 and under cars were in their own area, right up front beside the race cars and I had no problem with that as some of the Sevens were also up front on the other side of the race cars.

 

I'm up for a separate USA7s event depending on where it is held. Long trips are too hard on my back these days even in the comfort of the Silverado, trailering the Se7en.

 

I am also planing to attend LOG31 in Las Vegas. I hope the two events don't conflict.

[slngsht]

Probably a good thing Frankn7 wasn't there :rofl:

 

My 2 cents on 2011.

 

I'm all for a usa7s only event. we need to reinvigorate the club a little bit. Al did a fantastic job with 7/7/7, but we have not had anything even close to that type of effort since. We need to step it up as an organization in '11.

 

I'm long overdue for a car vacation.

[drew...]

Maybe not to the same degree as was experienced at LOG30 but LOG29 had much the same feel regarding the new Se7ens vs. the "classic 7's". I do not foresee attending another LOG event - the most enjoyable experiences at LOG29 were the Barber Track Day, breakfast and blat to 29 Palms (USA7s) and TOD - all events really separate from the LOG proceedings. We would definently be interested in a USA7s event, (still kicking myself for missing 7/7/7!).

[locost7018]

Don't forget there is a Midwest Se7ens Gathering in northern Arkansas in June 2011. ALL Se7ens are welcome along with any one else interested in our cars. See the announcement in LocostUSA. Russ

[Jim F.]

I, also, would very seriously consider attending a Sevens-only event if it were to be held in Las Vegas. My son and his family live in Wheat Ridge, CO, so this would be an opportunity to do both.

I attended a LOG gathering (year unknown) in Cambria, CA years ago with my '89 Esprit and also felt very much an outsider, I assumed because I had an Esprit and not a vintage performance Lotus. I was just interested in the social side of the gathering (tours, scenic drives, show & shine, etc.) and felt ignored because I wasn't a dirt-and-oil-under-the-fingernails type of guy. NTS, I haven't attended another one since and wouldn't consider another one unless it was being held in my backyard. I left the LOG feeling very much snubbed by the elitist group.....not at all welcoming to outsiders.

Part of the beauty of our club is all members are equal and status/income levels are of no consequence.........just a pure passion for our beloved Sevens and a willingness to aid in helping to solve problems and keeping the atmosphere upbeat and enjoyable.

[jbanker]

I have attended LOG 25, in 2005 in St. Louis where we had a fairly good representation of LSISC. First place concours trophy that year for Replicas was a very nice Birken. I earned second place with my Stalker.

 

Also attended LOG 28 in 2008 in Indy with concours first in the Replica awarded to a nicely done Westfield 11 replica.

 

At LOG 28 Clive Chapman and Bob Dance both took autocross rides in a very well prepared SuperStalker and loved it. Clive's only comment was that he was going to do the driving next time.

 

My wife and I felt very comfortable at both LOG events and had initially planned to attend both LOG 29 and LOG 30. As things worked out we were not able to attend either one.

 

Sorry that many of you that have attended previous LOGs sensed any negative attitudes.

[Mondo]

I couldn't pass up an event in Las Vegas... it's so close.

[BusaNostra]

Sorry---just a bit confused.

 

"There was an overt tone of hostility being shown to the “modern” Sevens group by the “classic” Sevens owners. I tried to talk with three owners of “classic” sevens "

 

 

Croc---are the snubbed modern 7 you are relating are the Caterham-Westfield-Rotus-Superperformance-Berkins-Ultralights-etc..etc...etc..etc

and the snubish were the real Lotus seven owners?

 

If it is, I can see why and this is not an old story. tHE real Lotus seven club will not

accept the above.

[rnr]

tHE real Lotus seven club will not accept the above.

 

I dont think you can paint an entire class of people with the same brush - while it is true that some Seven owners can be snobbish, it certainly isnt universal.

 

I am active with the Golden Gate Lotus Club and several of our members have currently or in the past owned real Sevens. All of them love my Ultralite and it is always referred to as a Seven and never as a replica.

[BusaNostra]

I dont think you can paint an entire class of people with the same brush - while it is true that some Seven owners can be snobbish, it certainly isnt universal.

 

I am active with the Golden Gate Lotus Club and several of our members have currently or in the past owned real Sevens. All of them love my Ultralite and it is always referred to as a Seven and never as a replica.

 

Yeah you are right...not all of them....sorry

 

...but there is no denial there is friction

I got kit and they got real stuff, I can see where they are coming.

I don't give a zhyte. I'm not gonna worry and lost sleep because I got the clone.

 

Oh, I wish I can say my kit is a lotus seven...but I rather not say it. I tell them the brand

and let them decide. I'm not going to pretend its real.....I avoid confrontation and being snobbed...that's where the problem starts.

 

 

.....and I agree, we should have our own log. I don't go to the log anymore. I learned

my lesson, there is no business bringing my clone to real Lotus gathering. Informal gathering is ok.

That's only my opinion....you may disagree.

Edited October 12, 2010 by BusaNostra

[DeanG]

I did hear of some people being unfriendly to drivers of non-Lotus manufactured cars. I can only state my own opinion - I am sorry that such incidents occurred. If it were up to me I would formally invite all Se7en manufacturers to LOG. I have stated before that the Balkanization of the Se7en community would be a disservice to those who love the type.

 

On the other hand:

 

1 - I do take some offense of non-Lotus built cars wearing Lotus badges. Be proud of your car. Nobody claims that a Se7en is a practical car. It is a hobby car. People purchase a specific make and model (or scratch build a car) because they wanted it. Support your manufacturer. Display the manufacturers badge proudly.

 

2 - Lotus Ltd has the specific mission of supporting Lotus. The club's governing recognizes that the Seven lives on in many forms. Legally the Seven name lives on via Caterham. In spirit it lives on by multitude of manufactures.

 

Please don't paint an entire club by the actions and words of a few individuals. If someone organizes a Se7en event I will try to attend especially if Lotus built cars are allowed.

[slomove]

Should not be one or the other....why not have both?

 

For that matter, Las Vegas is very convenient for me (4 hours from L.A.) especially in October when the heat is hopefully not that bad. Pretty sure I will be there. But I think most of you East Coast folks may find it pretty far, same as that last LOG was just too far out for me.

 

So.....I really don't want to push it too much (oh well, this is a lie) but plans are congealing for the next Sevens trip (as announced earlier) to the Black Hills. Almost in the middle between California, Pacific NW, Midwest and Texas, i.e. 2-day trailer distance. Admittedly the southern states and New England are a bit further out.

 

The center piece is a 5-day stay in Custer, SD and I have already some 3-6 other people interested. Fabulous trip and lot to do for the family, if so desired! If we want we could make this a USA7s meet. Disadvantage: no road track in the area but maybe we can find an Autox place.

 

Anyway, just an idea. Here is the latest plan. Right now I am working on some hotel options (with the friendly help of Randall Z.)

 

 

Tour Start

Sun, 7/11/2011 Jackson, WY Thermopolis, WY 247mi Shoshone Res., Wind River Canyon, dinosaur museum

Mon, 7/12/2011 Thermopolis, WY Newcastle, WY 269 mi Southern Bighorn Mountains, Thunder Basin Grassland

Tue,7/13/2011 Newcastle, WY Custer, SD 39mi Jewel Cave Nat. Monument

Wed, 7/14/2011 Custer, SD Custer, SD no driving Laundry, car care, town visit

Thu, 7/15/2011 Custer, SD Custer, SD 89mi Southern Black Hills, Wind Cave N.P.

Fri, 7/16/2011 Custer, SD Custer, SD 88mi Crazy Horse Monument, Hill City

Sat, 7/17/2011 Custer, SD Custer, SD 69mi Mt. Rushmore, Norbeck Scenic Drive

Sun, 7/18/2011 Custer, SD Deadwood SD 250mi Badlands National Park

Mon, 7/19/2011 Deadwood SD Hulett WY 107mi Spearfish Canyon, Sundance, Devil's Tower N.M.

Tue, 7/20/2011 Hulett WY Ranchester, WY 262mi Little Bighorn Battlefield Nat. Memorial

Wed, 7/21/2011 Ranchester, WY RedLodge, MT 245mi Northern Bighorn Mountains, Chief Joseph Hwy., Beartooth down

Thu, 7/22/2011 RedLodge, MT RedLodge, MT no driving Laundry, car care, town visit

Fri, 7/23/2011 RedLodge, MT Jackson, WY 225mi Beartooth up, Yellowstone, Teton N.P.

Tour End

Edited October 13, 2010 by slomove

[Al N.]

My 2¢. A little birdie told me that there was some bad vibes from LOG 30, and I wanted to voice my POV.

 

The USA7s club was founded back in 2006 as a multi-marque club — the founding members represented owners/enthusiasts of all types of Lotus Seven-inspired vehicles.

 

The meet that sort of launched the club was organized by Mazda E, and had 2 Roti and 3 Caterhams enjoy a spirited drive in Shenandoah NP until the rangers issued citations. The chemistry was good, we all enjoyed each other's cars, and had a blast driving and recounting the drive. No one lorded anything over anyone else or snubbed anyone. I still count Scott, Mazda, Steve, and John among my friends...cars or no cars.

 

7-7-7 was pretty much the same vibe, with two original Lotus cars taking front and center in our group pic. Anyone who was there can tell you that the force was strong with the club that weekend. Though, even then, one of purists from the UK club pooh-poohed the meet, calling it a "hollywood production" (since the date had little to do with any significant date in Colin Chapman's history).

 

Since then, cars have changed hands, officers have come and gone and come again —*but the spirit of USA7s should still be the same: marque inclusiveness with a focus on driving. The few times people have come on the board without that spirit, they have either been taken to task, been asked to take their business elsewhere, or moved on of their own accord.

 

I had a great time at LOG 29 down in Birmingham. I think the fact that John V. works at Barber made a big difference. I'm sad to hear that the cold shoulder was thrown by some "original Lotus" people at LOG 30. I will add that John D. of Simple Sevens has helped me a lot in my process of getting SB1341 together — though I'm sure the mish-mash of Lotus and Caterham parts that it is turning out to be will put some of the purists (and maybe even John D. himself) off as well.

 

What I find heartening in all of this is that Dean G. (who with his very early Series 1 could perhaps be justified in "snobbing" modern LSiS cars) is one of the most open and inclusive Se7eners around. As he has noted time and time again, our little corner of the hobby is too small benefit from Balkanization.

 

As for a national USA7s meet? I'm up for it. I will say this though -- it is a LOT of work. For 7-7-7, I basically worked 2 jobs for the better part of a year. And since I co-own an ad agency, one of the those jobs made it easy to do the other one (making brochures, badges, etc.) One tricky think is that geographically/financially/timewise, many folks are less likely to make a long trip for a national meet. 7-7-7 at the Tail of the Dragon was an exception, I think because of the unique nature of the 50th anniversary.

 

Having gone on one of Gert's tours before, I like the direction he's going in for 2011. For it to become something worthy of the "national" moniker, we'd have to have people from both coasts attend, and upwards of 25 cars?

 

Can we we do it? I think so, but again, it will take commitment.

[Boxologist]

I beleive Gert's (annual) endeavor is defintely worthy of attendance. For a national meet in 2011 this would be my choice. Revisiting all the discusions post 7-7-7, I still think Arkansas is the most central and most representative of what occured at TotD. For teh most part USA7s particpants want to drive their cars. That spirit is what I want a USA7s event seperate itself from any other national car meet.

 

Maybe set 2012 and the 55th aniversary as a goal.

 

More low key, more high milage!

 

And this should not be se7ens only. That notion should die. We have more in common than what we drive. It may be why we drive se7ens. We find them and teh trip exciting. I will not exclude anyone who does not have a se7en, Lotus, or any other make/model. If they enjoy driving and/or teh moment, then I think they should be welcomed. lets be enthusiasts and enthusiastic. If there is anyone who is perspective se7en owner, then such a national meet should be their destination for that year!

[Al N.]

@Jon: The only thing that I would add regarding it being "Se7ens only" is that Se7ens of all kinds should be the focus. People who are prospects are welcome of course (there were a few non-owners/soon to be owners at 7-7-7). Otherwise, it's just a car meet. I'm not talking about excluding anyone, but just reaffirming that we're all here for the Sevens, the driving, and the camaraderie.

 

I could see myself holing up in Custer with the wife/kids/trailer to prep for the meeting, then joining the rest of the tour in SB1341.