werthie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 greetings! you may remember my engine fire back in April of last year (read about it here: http://usa7s.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8468) well, after a ton of work, today was the first day out of the garage and back out on the street. :party: since i had to replace the entire front suspension, the first order of business was a front end alignment. to my surprise, the rear wheels have waaaayyyyy too much toe-in: an inch on the right side, and more than 1-5/8" on the left . . . yikes! how is this adjusted back to zero? the alignment shop didn't have a clue . . . please use small words, and pictures would be greatly appreciated. i didn't notice this issue before the fire, but i wasn't on the road very long. thanks in advance for your help! alan in LA
xcarguy Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 well, after a ton of work, today was the first day out of the garage and back out on the street. Alan, Congratulations on getting the car back on the road!!!! :cheers: I'm certain the right guys will chime in on the toe issue. :smash:
werthie Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 oh, and as long as we're here . . . my car also had more than 2 degrees of negative camber on each of the rear wheels . . . is this adjustable? if so, how? thank you again! alan
scannon Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Alan, With those readings on the toe in I think you need to check the straightness of the deDion tube. I don't think shims are going to be enough to take out 2 5/8" of total toe in.
werthie Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 is it possible that sitting on jack stands for 6 months could have bent the deDion tube?? say it ain't so . . .
dallasdude Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 The older dedion tubes are pretty easy to bend, although I doubt being on jack stands did it...there are about seven revisions of the tube and of course later is better. It's possible your ears are bent (the aluminum ones that attach to the ends of the tube), but more than likely it's the tube itself. I have been meaning to make to go/no go fixture to check the tubes for straightness. As far as the 2 degrees camber, the your car probably came with .8 degree (approx) camber ears. Don't know if someone switched them out or here again your tube is bent. The are some 1.5 degree ears. The are some ears with more camber than that, but they don't work with the Sierra calipers. Two degrees is desirable for track use with radials, but might lead to excessive tire wear on the street. If your figures are correct, the reply was correct there is no way you can make that up with shims and have it maintain alignment. You're gonna have to buy a new tube. Be careful the latest tubes (made after about 2005 I think) ,may not have a shock mount in the correct place to make your shocks useable. Yours probably came with a shock mount that goes through the center of the tube, later ones eliminated that mount (I guess it compromised the strength) and only used the shock mount that was underslung to the tube. Someone may have direct experience but this moves the shock mounting point down a couple inches, possible requiring a longer shock.
werthie Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 dallas dude . . . what about the idea of having the tube straightend? . . . if necessary, where does one obtain a new tube? Caterham in the UK? is this the right one? http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=2588 again, thanks for the help . . . . alan
dallasdude Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I will try to post some pictures later today. I would think they could be straightened but would be concerned about them maintaining shape. And you would need a jig or fixture to be sure the ends are parallel. The bottom line is when you try to do an alignment, but you don't want to have to put everything together to see that you have straightened it correctly. I believe there is an old blatchat thread that describes the revisions of the tube if anyone has the link.
bball7754 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Here is the Blatchat thread discussing Dedion failures. The first post has a list of all the variations: http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=94283 Steve
coffee break Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Here is the Blatchat thread discussing Dedion failures. The first post has a list of all the variations: http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=94283 Steve And I thought American manufactures were the only ones to used "consumer engineers" to find weak points. Read some of the failure descriptions, holy crap!
Kitcat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Hmmm, the Blatchat info is sobering. The Dedion tube sounds like another part that should at least be routinely inspected, if not replaced, with some regularity. When it fails, the term "catastrophic" seems in order. At least that's what I call it when a car makes a 90 degree turn, all on its own, while pointed straight.
werthie Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 OK, so i now have visual confirmation that the tube is bent on both ends, and I've concluded that this MUST have happened after the fire, when the car was being transported from the "scene of the crime," and then to my house, and then to the shop where we've doing the work. WORD TO THE WISE: carefully monitor exactly how your Seven is being tied down to a flatbed . . . indeed, if there is a preferred method, it should probably be the topic of another thread. MEANWHILE, does anyone have advice on where/how to get a replacement tube? i'll put a post under "Parts Wanted." also, should i be concerned that the forces which bent the tube may have also distorted the radius rods and/or the A-frame? any thoughts on this? alan
wemtd Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I second the above comment regarding flat bed towing. My car suffered grievously from a tow truck operator. At least I redirected him from the initial hook placement which would have punctured the gas tank. - But that's another story.
centerfireman Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I agree with Alan; could someone please post accurate information on how a Caterham can be safely towed/secured in the (unlikely!) event of a breakdown? Thanks.
Paul Hill Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 In my opinion you can't beat ratchet strap wheel baskets. No stress or strain on any components.
werthie Posted February 19, 2014 Author Posted February 19, 2014 "ratchet strap wheel baskets"? translation, please . . . and does this address the manner in which the car is dragged onto the flatbed? alan
coffee break Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Here is one version. http://www.grainger.com/product/3YDC7?gclid=CO2cy-aL17wCFeRi7AodcEkATg&cm_mmc=PPC:GooglePLA-_-Material%20Handling-_-Straps%20and%20Tie%20Downs-_-3YDC7&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=3YDC7&ef_id=UdYWagAABNtKpiYO:20140219015922:s
Paul Hill Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Could not make the Grainger link work... Alan: Picture a nylon tie down strap that cradles the top of the tire. You usually see them used on the 2 wheel dollies carrying the front wheels of a car towed behind a motorhome. No, they don't assist with winching your car onto a flat deck but are a great choice to secure it once it is loaded. I use 2 on opposite corners. I welded tow eyes front and rear on my Europa, will do the same on our Caterham when I finally get started on the project.
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