The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale

[wdb]

10 hours ago, Cueball1 said:

Any of you smart, experienced and knowledgeable folks have opinions on this birkin for sale?  Good looking car to my newb eyes.  Anything jump out to you folks as far as shortcomings or problems?  Any input greatly appreciated. 

 

Have been in contact with the owner.  Waiting for additional pics and information.  Any questions i should be asking?

 

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/cincinnati-birkin-caterham-lotus/7648998174.html

I'm none of the above, especially regarding 7's. But I have a switch that flips when I see a plainly dirty car photographed for sale. "Run hard and put away wet" springs to the front of my mind. It seems like a nice spec though.

[Anaximander]

1 hour ago, wdb said:

I'm none of the above, especially regarding 7's. But I have a switch that flips when I see a plainly dirty car photographed for sale. "Run hard and put away wet" springs to the front of my mind. It seems like a nice spec though.

wdb, I looked closely at the pictures and what I see is a car that has likely been sitting in the seller's garage. There is a patina of dust on the seats, wheels and a few other places but I do not get a sense of the car being "beat on"? As Bruce suggested, getting a compression check, log of maintenance and a look over by and experienced se7en owner would be a good way to go. I have seen numerous se7ens that were not garage queens but had been well sorted and were not immaculate. Bruce's example that he sold, is frequently not the norm and was reportedly specifically designed to show well to others. As others have said, just about any of these cars require some level of constant fettling and that is supposedly some of their charm. If one wants a bullet proof little roadster, then get a newer Miata

Edited August 8, 2023 by Anaximander

[Kitcat]

Cueball: I am in Cincy and will be in the seller’s neighborhood tomorrow a.m. As a technically challenged old guy I don’t see how to contact the seller for a visit. If you can get me that information I will see about arranging a look/test drive. 
Mike

[Anaximander]

1 hour ago, Kitcat said:

Cueball: I am in Cincy and will be in the seller’s neighborhood tomorrow a.m. As a technically challenged old guy I don’t see how to contact the seller for a visit. If you can get me that information I will see about arranging a look/test drive. 
Mike

Mike,

 

All you have to do is click on the pink Reply box in the upper left hand corner of the ad in the link and it gives a Craigslist email contact. You copy (to copy, use your mouse and highlight the email address, then right click on your mouse button to Copy, then go to your email account, go to the address line, right click again and Paste the email address)  and tell the seller in your email that you would like to get their phone number and that you will give them a call to arrange and inspection for an interested fellow enthusiast. Let them known that your a se7en owner yourself.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Anaximander

[Marek]

A 1993 Rotus-BMW on BaT.... 

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-rotus-seven/

 

[panamericano]

Be sure to ask the seller about the Bobby Archer connection (in photo under steering wheel).  If I remember correctly, the Archer brothers ran some very good race cars in the 1980s.  If they assembled the kit, that would be a good thing to know.  

[Cueball1]

@KitcatKitkat, tried to pm you the sellers phone number but i get a message saying you cannot recieve messages.  So here it is for everyone to see 😉

 

What an amazing offer.  Having a knowledgeable guy like you look at the car would be invaluable.  +1 513-289-7120 and his name is Gerald. 

 

Price wise he seeems to be asking top money for a Birkin.  9k mile car that has had the motor rebuilt, body repainted and the interior redone.  All that is a little concerning and maybe telling on how it was treated by the original owner. 

 

If this happens and you can meet, it might be too much to ask, but if you can get a feel for how firm he is on price?  Would be a big help.  I'm in Oregon.  Checking with a shipper I've used for cost to ship.  

Edited August 8, 2023 by Cueball1

[Kitcat]

I just realized it was full and emptied it. I will contact the seller and will let you know via the Forum’s message system, now that mine is working again.

Happy to have an excuse to play with a se7en!

 

Mike

[Croc]

Rotus 7 Project on Bringatrailer

No Reserve: 1993 Rotus 7 Project for sale on BaT Auctions - ending August 15 (Lot #116,961) | Bring a Trailer

 

 

 

[Kitcat]

BTW: cost of shipping is proportional to how quickly you need it. 
 

The cost seems ball park to me. I’d describe the things the seller has done as responsible upkeep. Track use IS very hard on all cars, including Se7ens.

[Kitcat]

Cueball: check your mailbox for an update. I am inspecting the car this Friday a.m., and will send you my thoughts then.

[wdb]

3 hours ago, Marek said:

A 1993 Rotus-BMW on BaT.... 

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-rotus-seven/

 

Hoo-boy that poor car has suffered from humid storage. I've never seen a Rotus, interesting front suspension on that one. I may have to study up on them.

[Bruce K]

@Cueball1 - Regarding S2K's, they are excellent Sevens, in large part because of that wonderful 9,000 RPM Honda motor.  During the years I owned one, I accumulated all my repair and upgrade experiences into a manual, which can be downloaded free from this site, or obtained from me by request (provide an email).  It is worth owning the manual irrespective of your brand of Seven, as many of the improvements and repairs are generic.  The manual also includes lots of Seven graphics and photos, so again, good for any Seven owner.  150 pages of earned Seven wisdom.

 

Your car was built for track use, but was it used only on track?  9,000 track miles is a lot (my Lola had only 498), but because Sevens are so light, and because your motor was rebuilt a few years ago, you may be OK.  I would definitely determine the correct compression ratio relative to your build, and then have it checked. 

 

Your tranny could be alright because it was designed for the much-heavier Merkur, and has been fitted with stronger aftermarket gears, but test drive the car and observe everything I noted in my earlier post.  To make sure, here's a few other transmission checks:  To check the baulk-ring synchronizers, first upshift into each gear at high rpm.  Next, downshift into each gear without double-clutching.  If the synchros are worn the gears will gnash.  In most trannies, the first-reverse slider is first to go, so check those gears thoroughly.  Also, when you have your compression checked, ask the mechanic to pull the tranny drain plug.  Hopefully, it is magnetized, so you can see if an unusual amount of metal has attached itself to the plug (don't worry about a little, because small amounts of metal wear off as gears "learn" to mesh properly).  If the plus is not magnetized and you buy the car, switch to a magnetized drain plug. 

 

Regarding the Toyota rear end, solid axles are preferred by many Sevenistas for track use, because most tracks are smooth and solid rear axles are simple and durable.  However, on the street, solid axles deliver less comfort over irregular pavement.  I cannot tell you the ordinary rear axle setup for Birkins.  I can say I have considered purchasing at least one that had a Toyota rear.  Bear in mind that Toyotas are very durable, and the axle in your Birkin was engineered to handle more than twice the weight of your car, so your axle should/could be in good shape, but check it.  Lots of parts available for that axle, too.

 

Extra wheels are great, especially the thirteens for the track, as they lower the ride height and center of gravity, providing improved cornering.  That low ride height is less suitable for the street, so the flexibility of two wheel sets is great.

 

By "rebuilt" in reference to the fuel cell, I suspect you mean the bladder was replaced.  Find out the replacement date, because you can't extract much more than 10 years out of a bladder, and a new one will cost hundreds up to a thousand, and can take up to a year to get manufactured.  I tried to squeeze one more track date out of a ten year old bladder in a Panoz, and made two laps before it started leaking, which got me black-flagged for the day.  Lost all my track fees.  That replacement date should be in the nice-looking journal the owner maintained, or on a sticker affixed to the side of the steel fuel cell housing.

 

The Kirkey seat should be installed only if you get really serious about track.  If you go in that direction, remove both current seats and install the Kirkey only for the driver.  But then you should also remove every unneccessary ounce of additional weight from the car, making it unsuitable for the street.  On the street, the Kirkey will not be as comfortable or attractive as the Caterham seats.    

 

You didn't mention top or doors.  Those could cost you a thousand dollars if not included.  Find out if he has them. BTW, canvas is cheapest, but the best material for top, doors, binnacle cover and tonneau is mohair - soft to the touch, folds easier and looks much better.

 

Best of luck, and please report back if you buy the Birkin.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Bruce K

[Cueball1]

@Bruce K  thank you!  Your replies are incredibly thoughful and thorough.  Kitkat is looking at the car friday morning.  I'm looking forward to his report.  Hopefully he knows some of the tricks of the trade you are suggesting to access mechanical condition. 

 

Pretty car.  First owner was an older track rat.  After engine rebuild, repaint and interior work it's been a weekend cruiser. 

[11Budlite]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:05 PM, Cueball1 said:

Any of you smart, experienced and knowledgeable folks have opinions on this birkin for sale?  Good looking car to my newb eyes.  Anything jump out to you folks as far as shortcomings or problems?  Any input greatly appreciated. 

 

Have been in contact with the owner.  Waiting for additional pics and information.  Any questions i should be asking?

 

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/cincinnati-birkin-caterham-lotus/7648998174.html

 

I owned a 2001 Birkin from 2002 to 2015. The Birkin you're interested in seems like a pretty good spec. From the factory it has the improved wiring harness/fuse box/relay setup, the easily-adjusted upper control arm (it looks like wide-track too), Outlaw 4-pot calipers, and the improved seats over the torture devices in my 2001. There could be more factory improvements that I'm forgetting. Oh yeah, Birkin's came standard with airfoil-shaped control arms in the front too. Another positive with the Birkin is it uses the 4x100 PCD so you can use very common Miata wheels, although you do have to watch the offset and might have to run spacers. The wheels on that Birkin are a very common upgrade in the Miata world.

 

The aftermarket upgrades look like the same upgrades I did to my Birkin. The Raceline (Jenvey) throttle bodies, Raceline water rail, Emerald ECU, are the same parts I purchased thru Woody Harris in Ca who was a dealer at the time. All good stuff. I also installed Woody's trailing arm/heim-joint/spring upgrade rear suspension on my live axle rear end and was impressed with the ride/handling compared to the stock setup. I couldn't tell from the photos but maybe that's been upgraded too. Kitcat can look for that when he checks out the car. One thing I ended up replacing were the heim joints on the live axle Panhard bar after 10k miles or so because they had some play in them. I believe they were Metric and I think I got them thru Pegasus. 

 

If the fuel cell is a Fuel Safe unit it was probably purchased in a group buy that we did around the 2005-06 time frame thru Woody. If the bladder has been replaced that's a positive. The foam blocks hopefully have been replaced at the same time.

 

I have a Caterham 310 now and I love it, but if I could have purchased my Birkin back I would have done so. I put a ton of time and effort into that car and it was a blast. I'm probably forgetting a lot but hopefully this helps.

 

Also see if he has the pedal cover for over the master cylinders. If you get caught out in the rain you're feet will get wet!

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by 11Budlite

[Kitcat]

It has a Zetec built by Forum member 1Turbofocus. It dynoed 168 hp, 149 torque on the dyno that I have also used locally and can vouch for. Those numbers are very good for a Zetec engine and are just slightly better than my Birkin’s Duratec showed on the same dyno.

 

It was built as a track car, though the current owner has just used it for blats.

[Cueball1]

I have a turbo'd early miata i used to track a great deal.  Lots of wheels and tires on hand though some of the tires are likely out of date now.  Nice that they are likely to fit. 

[Kitcat]

11Budlite: The paper work describes the rear susp as a 5 link with Panhard rod. Does that sound like the Woody Harris version? It has adjustable Carrera coil overs as well. 

[11Budlite]

2 hours ago, Kitcat said:

11Budlite: The paper work describes the rear susp as a 5 link with Panhard rod. Does that sound like the Woody Harris version? It has adjustable Carrera coil overs as well. 

The 5 link should consist of 2 trailing arms per side and a Panhard rod to control side to side movement. The Woody Harris version replaced the trailing arms, which had metalastic (sp?) bushings in them, to rod ends with aluminum adjusters. The Panhard rod stayed the same. This allowed the trailing arms to move more freely and had different rate springs to compensate. The rear suspension was more compliant so it wasn't as harsh and handled better over bumpy roads. I had AVO shocks on mine but I'm pretty sure other people used them with Carrera shocks that were popular at the time too. 

 

I have photos at home that I'll post after work showing the setup.

[11Budlite]

These are the best photos I have of Woody Harris' trailing arm kit. 

 

With all the input to this car we probably should have had a separate thread on this.