Kitcat Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Any one using a surge tank to solve fuel starvation issues? If so, what spec? Does anything work (and fit) well on Caterhams? My '03 Zetec has developed a starvation issue coming out of long, long, left hand curves on the track. As it straightens out it just dies for a few seconds, then springs back to life. And I have an unusually large 21 gallon Fuel Safe tank. I replaced the foam with aluminum pellets when I started going thru fuel pumps (tho that wasn't the problem). Anyhow, when I have about 14 gallons left it experiences starvation. If I keep it topped up, it does fine. Anyone experience/resolve this in their cars? My mechanic is proposing a surge tank and additional fuel pump wh/makes sense to me. But what mfg? And where have you mounted them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7guy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Look at the new product - holley hydramat Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FE07 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I have a Fuel safe cell that replaced the original ATL. When I ordered it, one option was to include a surge tank to the bottom of the cell. Unfortunately I don't think this is something you could add yourself. If your cell is not out of date- you could probably ship it back and have them add it. Probably not the least expensive option. Look at their catalog online or better yet give em a call and see what suggestions they might have. My Zetec sometimes does something similar which feels like fuel starvation but certainly should'nt be given the surge tank. Haven't been able to figure out why it happens. Very random and sporadic. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papak Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 In constructing my Birkin, I anticipated that problem and had a trapezoidal aluminum tank (approximately 1.5 liters) welded up by my local Welder. It sits above the differential and immediately behind the rear cockpit bulkhead.I looked at a number of them on eBay, etc but wanted to retain the ability to utilize the fiberglass boot insert and didn't want to mount something up front or outboard of the fuel tank. I use a Facet low pressure pump to fill the surge tank and that, in turn, gravity feeds a Walbro 392 that pushes the fuel up to the fuel rail. The return from the fuel rail runs through a stock (?) Ford pressure regulator with the return dumping into the surge tank. Any overflow from the surge tank returns to the main tank. The engine goes in this week so I should know how well it works in a week or two. I did have to buy a number of -6 fittings but I found a good deal on blemished -6 SS hose. I pressure checked each section after assembly and am keeping my fingers crossed that everything is sealed up well. If I can resize my photos correctly, I will post a couple of shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I like that hydromat... but it could be as much as $700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Thx guys, all useful info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe String Racing Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I remain baffled as to why so many 7's all kinds have fuel pick up problems with even 1/2 tank of fuel. The Hydromat looks promising if not amazing. If my Fuel safe cell wasn't already on the way I'd look seriously at this option. as it is, I went with the Fuel safe collector/ surge tank. http://fuelsafe.com/store/fuel-cell-parts/fuel-cell-collector-surge-tank.html Looking forward to a review of the Hydromat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I remain baffled... Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx7locost Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Review of Hydromat is here: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17572&p=217829&hilit=hydromat#p217829 As for why the Sevens have the problem, we tend to mount the pumps at the sides of the tanks instead of the center. Add to that most of us have very narrow, but W-I-D-E tanks so more space available in the turns for the fuel to go. And maybe has something to do with the way we take corners. :driving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 It looks like the one made by BOE Fabrication is popular with the Elise/Exige track people. http://www.boefab.com/collections/track-parts/products/surge-tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lg2k Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) I have the same problem on my Westfield. On long left handers I get fuel starvation at anything below a 3/4 tank. The Westfield tank has a small capacity of 7 gallons. It has a tiny sump on the driver side but it isn't enough. I changed the external pump the car came with an internal Mazda Miata fuel pump but it didn't make any difference. It is worse in that it always leaks a bit from the top of the tank. I didn't know about the hydramat but even if I move the pump to the center of the tank I think the hydramat is too wide to fit between the two baffles. My second idea was to make a sump in the center of the tank and use a GM system from a Silverado. It has an internal sump as well and seems to eliminate the surge problem. http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/in-tank-fuel-pump-conversion.394565/page-2 You can even buy the adapter to weld onto your tank so that the pump fitting is factory. http://www.vetteworksonline.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=89&osCsid=ek3akeqin32vu69kk850k5c4u1 Yet another idea is to do what Westfield does on their race cars which is use a high and low pressure external pump with a swirl tank. I should have probably done this before going with the Miata internal pump solution. Edited May 24, 2016 by lg2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I remain baffled as to why so many 7's all kinds have fuel pick up problems with even 1/2 tank of fuel. The Hydromat looks promising i . . . . I've been kicking around tank ideas during the rebuilding of my car. I too have fuel starvation issues during sustained high lateral G loads. Pre-crash, if I topped off before hitting the track, I could manage two 25 min sessions; I could milk it through a third session, but i couldn't run all out. I'm considering the Hydromat as well along with baffles from these folks: http://www.alltechmotorsports.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lg2k Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Any one using a surge tank to solve fuel starvation issues? ....But what mfg? And where have you mounted them? The Westfield Aerorace manual shows how they mount the 2 fuel pumps and swirl pot in Chapter 7 page 2: http://www.manikllc.com/manuals/Westfield_AeroRace_Build_Manual-2008-07-07.pdf They use a Facet Red Top for the low pressure fuel pump and a swirl pump like this one: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=10247 I've never tried this setup but the Flyin Miata did fix their fuel starvation problem this way on their Westfield build which should be similar on a Caterham. Although it might bring the value down on your Caterham to use a design idea from a Westfield. lol ;-) Edited May 25, 2016 by lg2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I have something very similar to the fuel saver (actually all 4 sides of the box have the one-way valves) in my tank. But I try never to go below a quarter tank... about 2-3 gallons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I had the same problem. My tank only has one internal baffle, and with hard cornering or auto-x I needed half a tank + to prevent fuel starvation. My solution was to add a sump to the tank. The walls extend 4" up into the tank, with hinged gates on each side. With the pump extanded to the bottom of the tank sump, I can now suck very last drop of gas without any problems. Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastg Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I had the same problem with my Locost. I ended up using a inside the tank, surge tank. It is held in place by foam. Foam was the first thing I tried and it made no difference, so now the foam hold the Surge Tank in place. Graham https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2538 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Surge tanks are very easy to set up and work very well , I build a lot of high HP Foci ( 400-700 to the wheels ) and the stock fuel systems wont keep up so I am doing surge tanks , feed the surge tank with the stock pump , single 044 pump feeds the engine , return line from the fuel rail to the surge tank then return line from surge tank to stock tank , works very well and dont see why it wouldnt work for the Caterham Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Thx Tom, I have forwarded this to my mechanic, Jeremy, who is scheduled to work on this in a few days. BTW, my SVT engine has run great since you and Jeremy did the tune 2 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Thats great to hear , He has my number if he has any questions Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGTorque Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 shameless post: if anyone needs a PERFECTLY work surge tank system. i am passing this one along to the next usa7s member as it was passed to me. http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?11197-FS-surge-tank-setup-(fuel-starvation-protection)&p=100617#post100617 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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