Engine fitment woes

[Bartman]

Gus and I finally got the engine dry fit in the car but we did discover two problems that we now need to address.

 

1. The new engine mounts from Raceline hold the motor 1/2" higher than the originals, this means the hood and the nosecone will not fit as they foul on the cam cover. The new mounts are beefier than the original Caterham ones so we have some work now to modify them to allow the engine to settle in properly  

 

2. The Oil filler cap on the new Retro Ford cam cover (BDA style) sits quite proud and is touching the underside of the hood and is also positioned exactly at the intersection of the hood and nose cone, so does not work as is. The solution is to machine a lower profile oil filler cap similar to the one below that I knocked up in tinker cad to illustrate my thinking. The main question is does anyone know what the thread is for a oil filler cap to fit a Ford Focus SVT (which apparently is what the thread is)?

 

Thanks in advance to all.

 

[MV8]

The machinist can measure the cap you have or you can if you have a dial caliper. I expect it to be around M32.5-4.0. Apparently not a common size.

[fastg]

I think 3D printing might be the answer to you oil cap. If you can just find the thread size, it should be no problem to draw up and print a cap. 

 

Graham 

[Bartman]

That was my thinking print one 3D and if it works out machine one in 6061 or similar. 

[CarlB]

I have some pictures for you to look at from my car. I believe we have the same car. Mine is a 1999 or 2000 S-3 Zetec. I measured the oil cap on my car and got 3 treads in 7.64 mm. I think that is how you do it for metric. Imperial is threads per inch. Anyway, that would be 2.55 so I am guessing 2.5. Perhaps someone can jump in who actually knows how to measure threads. If your oil cap is at the intersection of the hood and the nose the engine might not be far enough back. Here are some pictures. The picture of the crank pully shows how low the engine should sit. I spoke to Gus yesterday about that. This picture was taken with a level on the camera, and the little tit sticking up in the picture is the jackstand the car is on.  

[CarlB]

I do not have an SVT. If the SVT oil cap is different my measurements will not work.

[panamericano]

I would caution against making the oil cap require a particular tool.  Bad experience on a rally with a leaky cooler, so we had to keep adding oil.  You never know where you'll be when you catch a leak.  You could knurl the edges or if too flush, put notches so just about anything can tap it enough to loosen.

[MV8]

For metric, it is measured one major to one major (i.e. the gap from tooth peak to adjacent tooth peak) so 2.5 sounds right. The svt cap should be the same. They have either a cam lock or threads.

Bart, why not do a quick print of a thread profile gauge with 2.5, 2.75, and 3.0 in 25mm runs then check you new cap? Measure the new caps OD of the thread in inches, convert fractions to decimal and multiply by 25.4 for mm.

I'm not sure how long your print will be stable in 225f oil and the allen socket will likely strip and require broaching to machine. I suggest aluminum with two round, 3/8x7/16 pockets as far apart as practical to use a universal pin wrench.

Edited July 28, 2022 by MV8

[MV8]

Any pics of the engine mounting brackets sitting on the too tall mounts? I'm not sure why you don't use a standard cap which is very low profile and costs $5.

Edited July 28, 2022 by MV8

[Dave W]

I had a similar problem, with my engine. I was able to cut a little over 4mm off the neck and machine another 3mm off the top of the cap. A simple check should tell you how much material can be removed from both surfaces.

[CarlB]

Here are the measurements you were looking for and some pictures. The first measurement is from the back of the cylinder head to the fire wall 8 1/4 inches. 

 

Here is a picture of the motor mount to the vertical frame member that has the lower rear control arm and the upper rear control attached to it. the distance from the vertical tube to the middle of the motor mount bolt is 7 5/8 inches

 

 

I never paid any attention before, but we were talking about cars with Vauxhall engines, here is a picture of motor mount holes that might be for those engines. I only have them on the exhaust side. 

 

[IamScotticus]

delete

Edited July 30, 2022 by IamScotticus

[MV8]

Mr. Bart,

 

I see you are in the Beltway. Just want you to know that we are from USA7's and we are here to help.

 

Seriously though, your engine mount arms on the block look odd but it isn't a very good pic. They are appear to sweep forward. Maybe some sort of custom brackets to install a zetec?

 

[CarlB]

Other than the pictures in the original post, the pictures are of my car. We both have very similar cars. If I remember Bartman's car is a 2001 and mine is a 2000. The picture of his engine from the intake manifold side shows the motor mount. It is similar to mine. I will have a better look today, but the problem appears to be the engine is not sitting far enough back. The exhaust side mount points forward as well, but not as much.

[bball7754]

I’m surprised the Raceline mounts create this issue.  Have you contacted them?

 

Is the custom cam cover (which I think is great) taller than stock?  

[MV8]

Looking at the Raceline site, I see they sell engine mounting brackets/arms and call them "engine mounts", so I assume you are talking about the metal arms that bolt to the block and not the rubber mounts that bolt to the chassis. Why not use the original arms? The new arms should not raise the engine a 1/2 inch in the chassis.

They also sell duratec arms for changing engine placement longitudinally. They look very similar to zetec arms so maybe they sent you the wrong ones. I'd take a pic of each against  a carpenter square and takes some measurements to email to raceline so they can determine if they sent you the wrong parts.

I thought you were referring to the rubber mounts. There is a replacement rubber made by vibratec that uses a stud instead of a bolt and is about 1/8" taller than the standard rubber mount. I'd stick with the standard mount.

Duratec:

https://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?categoryID=1 &SectionID=27

 

Zetec:

https://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?categoryID=2 &SectionID=46

 

[inchoate]

FWIW with a "standard" BDR mounting the oil fill cap lands right at the nosecone/hood interface.

 

I don't have confirmation but I believe that the cam cover was factory (and I use the term loosely) modified to lower the filler cap to allow it to clear.

 

Any reason you can't just use the stock cam cover? 

[Bartman]

Good morning everyone and thank you to all for the advice.

 

 

@Carlb's measurements are very helpful and I plan to go check and compare my install later today. I'll update when I have the measurements taken.

 

The engine was supplied with the retro ford cam cover so I don't have an original to use or compare against. 

 

 

 

[Bartman]

Having now checked using the dimensions that @Carlb provided it seems Raceline indeed supplied the wrong engine mounts, which although did "fit" they positioned the engine too far forward and too high. I am now trying to track down a correct engine mount. Attached is a photo of the original one that was broken when I got the car, Worst case is I need to get one fabricated to match this one, although heavier duty given this one failed and my new engine has 2X the HP. 

 

I will try the usual suppliers but it seems unlikely that I can get one off the shelf. 

 

I will still need to make a new oil filler cap which turns out to be 3mm thread pitch at 30mm diameter.

[fastg]

That looks like a simple repair, it may not be a permanent solution but it would get you further along. 

 

Graham