The Other Cars of USA7s Members (Non-Se7ens only)

[Bruce K]

The amount of accumulated sports car wisdom distributed among USA7s members amazes me!  So many great suggestions.

 

@inchoate- As your budget is circa $60k, besides the aforementioned TVR's, Elises and others, you could also consider an Exige, which is like an Elise on steroids.  I owned one, and it was easy and affordable to wring 343 hp out of that great little Toyota I4.  For upgrading Elises and Exiges, contact Shinoo Mapleton at Inokinetic in CA.  To my knowledge, there are not any worthy GT40 replicas or tributes available at your price point - most run $125,000 and up.  Regarding Cobras and GT40's, I stress again:  Stick with factory produced examples, or if a Factory Five or other kit car, look for professional assembly and crate or builder motor.  Regarding the driving experience, my Backdraft was fitted with the Wilwood big brake kit, the factory racing suspension, big gummy Nitto tires and a Roush 402.  It also was one of about 5 total cars produced with chromed wheels and spinners.  The track and street experience provided the driver with an enormous sensation of capability, in every regard - acceleration, braking, turn-in, grip and corner adhesion - very much as I imagine an original 427 Cobra to provide.  The car's stunning appearance created lots of opportunities for discussion and picture-taking.  A car like my Backdraft, with low miles, would start at about $70,000 used right now.  Images of my Backdraft and Exige below:

[mrmustang]

20 hours ago, inchoate said:

@JohnCh supplement, i'll never get rid of the caterham

 

@Bruce K budget is mid 60k, i could go more for the right thing but less is better.  i've thought about cobra replicas but i've never driven one.  my guess is that there's a pretty wide range of experiences there.  i do have standing approval from the wife for a GT40 but that's still very low to the ground.

 

@Vovchandr S2000 is an interesting idea...

A cobra will not be to your liking, it's loud, has no AC, nor power accessories of any kind. Sure you can get a top, heater, wipers, but the top works poorly and leaks water on your left knee, the wipers are smaller than those on the "7", and the heater may keep your toes warm, but the engine will keep your driving shoes soft from the radiant heat thrown off. Superformance makes a nice car (buy a chassis above #1300), Backdraft is not even close in shape, or in quality,( just look at how many are for sale after a very short ownership, then ask yourself why). Look at ERA as well, but expect your budget to not be enough as they will usually sell in the 69-85K range, or higher).

 

As for the GT40's, figure you'll really need to stretch your budget, as a good quality, but not show car GT40 replica will start at 135K, better ones are above 200K.

 

Have you looked at an older Porsche Boxster? The "S" is the better choice, but you need to make certain you have receipts proving the RMS and IMS bearing where changed out.....2001-2006 are in the $16,000-$30,000 range. Rust free is the only way to buy one, on this, there are no inexpensive ways to fix rust on them.

 

Miatas, 2006-2014 "NC" can be had under 20K, some even have had their 2.0L motors swapped out for 2.5L Ford Duratec motors.

 

Have questions on the Cobras, I'm your guy as I wrote the Faq on how to buy, and how to sell a used Cobra (found on the cobra forums).....

 

Bill S.

[Bruce K]

@mrmustang- We have enjoyed excellent conversations before, so I apologize that I must disagree with your generalizations regarding Cobra replicas.  Anyone who, like @inchoate, owns a Seven understands primitive weather gear, loud motor noises, marginal wipers and lack of AC (although AC can be added without great expense, especially if a heater has already been plumbed).  I especially reject your assertion that Backdrafts are poorly made.  I did not experience a single significant issue with my example, nor have I heard this complaint from any other owner.  Additionally, the availability of Backdraft parts and upgrades was exemplary.  A Backdraft is not a perfect reproduction of a Cobra - it has more interior space, more engine space, a slightly larger track and wheelbase, and a slightly curvier and more exotic silhouette.  It is the Hollywood version of the girl next door.  I liked the look and appreciated the space provided by my Backdraft.  A Superformance Cobra, alternately, preserves stock dimensions, though the cars include many updates and available upgrades such as better brakes, improved coilovers like Ohlins, and a racecar-style tube frame chassis.  The greatest benefits these replicas could provide Inchoate are added height and girth - they are taller by several inches and heavier (approx 2,500 pounds) than Sevens, and though more dangerous than the ordinary Korean subcompact, they still provide more crash protection than any Seven not equipped with a full roll cage and automatic fire suppression.  As noted earlier, other Cobra kits are only as good as the shop that assembled them, and the components used in the build.  That's why I always recommend Superformance or Backdraft.

 

Beginning with 2009 models, Porsche engineered the IMS bearing issue into extinction  - no repair receipts required starting in 2009.  That's still 15 years ago, so many fine used examples are available now.  Porsches are very well made, one of the few sports cars which you can easily drive for 150,00 miles before rebuilding.  I like to note that the analog clock in my 1982 Porsche 935 tribute loses only a few minutes every year, and it is original.  For $60K you could purchase an excellent Boxster with 6 cylinder motor, which I would recommend over the 4.  The 4 is capable, but you will feel the turbo lag and reduced torque, and the engine song is not even close to the 6 cylinder.

[mrmustang]

11 hours ago, Bruce K said:

@mrmustang- We have enjoyed excellent conversations before, so I apologize that I must disagree with your generalizations regarding Cobra replicas.  Anyone who, like @inchoate, owns a Seven understands primitive weather gear, loud motor noises, marginal wipers and lack of AC (although AC can be added without great expense, especially if a heater has already been plumbed).  I especially reject your assertion that Backdrafts are poorly made.  I did not experience a single significant issue with my example, nor have I heard this complaint from any other owner.  Additionally, the availability of Backdraft parts and upgrades was exemplary.  A Backdraft is not a perfect reproduction of a Cobra - it has more interior space, more engine space, a slightly larger track and wheelbase, and a slightly curvier and more exotic silhouette.  It is the Hollywood version of the girl next door.  I liked the look and appreciated the space provided by my Backdraft.  A Superformance Cobra, alternately, preserves stock dimensions, though the cars include many updates and available upgrades such as better brakes, improved coilovers like Ohlins, and a racecar-style tube frame chassis.  The greatest benefits these replicas could provide Inchoate are added height and girth - they are taller by several inches and heavier (approx 2,500 pounds) than Sevens, and though more dangerous than the ordinary Korean subcompact, they still provide more crash protection than any Seven not equipped with a full roll cage and automatic fire suppression.  As noted earlier, other Cobra kits are only as good as the shop that assembled them, and the components used in the build.  That's why I always recommend Superformance or Backdraft.

 

Beginning with 2009 models, Porsche engineered the IMS bearing issue into extinction  - no repair receipts required starting in 2009.  That's still 15 years ago, so many fine used examples are available now.  Porsches are very well made, one of the few sports cars which you can easily drive for 150,00 miles before rebuilding.  I like to note that the analog clock in my 1982 Porsche 935 tribute loses only a few minutes every year, and it is original.  For $60K you could purchase an excellent Boxster with 6 cylinder motor, which I would recommend over the 4.  The 4 is capable, but you will feel the turbo lag and reduced torque, and the engine song is not even close to the 6 cylinder.

Can you explain why there are so many Backdrafts that get sold early on in their ownership. or why some get sold, then resold, and resold again in a short time period? I'm not picking on you, or the other owners, just asking a question based on what I see in a market I've been tracking for 30+ years. It's a nice car, and 95% do not have issues when new, but they are not the beat all of Cobra replicas, sometimes you get locked in with your choice, and steer others towards that because it fit your wants and needs, so you believe it is that way for everyone. As for a cobra replica itself, just like a later model Caterham 7, most educated buyers these days want a Cobra replica that is a close duplicate to the original. Some will make poor choices (CMC, B&B, Excalibur, West Coast for instance), others will do their homework, and not be taken in by brand loyalty, or slick advertising. If they are truly smart, they will get together with a local club, where the owners and their choices can be seen across the board, and side by side, then make their own decision. As for me, I've personally owned and raced FFR, Contemporary, ERA, Unique, a partial Kirkham (1/2 owner for a time), and have had the pleasure of driving many originals over the years.....Having only worked on two Backdrafts, but not driven on the street or the track, I cannot tell the nuances of them in that way, but I can tell you that parking them next to an original, you'll notice right away how different those previously mentioned liberties are.

https://www.erareplicas.com/427/profiles/index.htm

The page is a good representation of profiles, if you like, you can submit a shot of your Backdraft and they can add it to the page.

 

Again, just a matter of opinion.

 

Here is wishing you well.

 

Bill S.

[mrmustang]

_{A good litmus of the GT40 replica market will be this SPF built by Olthoff}

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/superformance-gt40-mkii-3/

 

Bill S.

[Bruce K]

5 hours ago, mrmustang said:

Can you explain why there are so many Backdrafts that get sold early on in their ownership. or why some get sold, then resold, and resold again in a short time period? I'm not picking on you, or the other owners, just asking a question based on what I see in a market I've been tracking for 30+ years. It's a nice car, and 95% do not have issues when new, but they are not the beat all of Cobra replicas, sometimes you get locked in with your choice, and steer others towards that because it fit your wants and needs, so you believe it is that way for everyone. As for a cobra replica itself, just like a later model Caterham 7, most educated buyers these days want a Cobra replica that is a close duplicate to the original. Some will make poor choices (CMC, B&B, Excalibur, West Coast for instance), others will do their homework, and not be taken in by brand loyalty, or slick advertising. If they are truly smart, they will get together with a local club, where the owners and their choices can be seen across the board, and side by side, then make their own decision. As for me, I've personally owned and raced FFR, Contemporary, ERA, Unique, a partial Kirkham (1/2 owner for a time), and have had the pleasure of driving many originals over the years.....Having only worked on two Backdrafts, but not driven on the street or the track, I cannot tell the nuances of them in that way, but I can tell you that parking them next to an original, you'll notice right away how different those previously mentioned liberties are.

https://www.erareplicas.com/427/profiles/index.htm

The page is a good representation of profiles, if you like, you can submit a shot of your Backdraft and they can add it to the page.

 

Again, just a matter of opinion.

 

Here is wishing you well.

 

Bill S.

Hello again, Bill.  Though I have been graced and privileged to own and drive many cars, I admit envy at your history of working on so many.  That connects an enthusiast to his vehicles in durable ways not easily reversed.

 

Regarding your challenge to explain why so many Backdrafts are sold so quickly after purchase, I must say that my experiences and information do not support your contention.  I kept mine for five years, and moved on only because two extreme, effectively topless roadsters was one too many for me, and I really wanted a new Alfa 4C coupe.  I agree with your observation that Backdrafts have a different, IMO more voluptuous profile.  The original Backdraft bodies were developed for racing in South Africa.  The bodies were hand-bucked using a Cobra only for reference.  They were so beautiful, many pleas were received to produce them, which ultimately transpired.  The additional size of Backdrafts makes them a bit more practical and easier to drive, and the fuller fenders impart a bit of exoticism.  Still, they are unmistakably Cobra replicas, as your examples and my preceding photos confirm.  Ultimately, the choice is a matter of personal preference.  I agree with you on another point:  At this time, the Superformance is slightly preferred to the Backdraft, as used Backdrafts sell for a bit less than similarly-equipped Superformance Cobras.   The gap is closing, however, as the following record of BAT sales will establish (the nine most recent Backdraft examples first and Superformance second): 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Bruce K

[mrmustang]

Bruce,

 

   Not only worked on, but personally owned, hundreds of convertibles over the years, as I was afflicted with the "grass is always greener" virus.....If I had red, and saw a BRG, I needed to sell the red and buy the BRG. Same goes for drivetrains, if I had a BB, I wanted a SB, and vice versa. AC vs no AC, etc and so forth.....It really got out of control in the mid 90's to mid 2K's, when my local Mustang club used to joke "there is Bill's mustang of the week".....LOL

 

Personally these days, Cobra wise, I'd prefer a Kirkham 289 FIA, David keeps tempting me, but has not found anything on the secondary market to tempt me, yet....Of course, if a 289 FIA SPF came up in the right color combination, I'd consider buying it as a garage mate for my current ERA 289 FIA. Then again, I'm watching for the right SV to possible join my current stable once the garage/house gut is finished in Jan/Feb 2024. The virus is still hidden within me, just itching to get out.....

 

Buy, build, buy, build, buy, build....AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

 

Bill S.

Edited August 30, 2023 by mrmustang

[Vovchandr]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I wouldn't let market prices dictate quality or reliability of vehicles. 

 

A fool and his money are easily parted. 

 

People have been buying horrible and unreliable cars for a premium for quite some time. 

 

Even v10 m5s are going up in value. 

[Bruce K]

@mrmustang  Bill, I guess I am a bit opposite of you.  My 935 Porsche tribute has been a two-owner, 38-year project (I still converse regularly with owner number one).  I've been developing my 4C for 6 years now, and can't imagine selling it.  I get your motivation, however - the world is filled with exciting cars, of which we've both owned shares (yours larger than mine), and it's glorious sampling them. 

 

You are in good company regarding 289 FIA Cobras - many consider them the purest Cobra experience.  The massive engine in my Backdraft definitely dominated the driving experience.  Everything is less traumatic with the 289's:  You receive a more balanced sampling of the car's performance envelope, plus many folks prefer the more classical, less tumescent appearance of the slimmer 289.  Speaking personally, for many years my company has maintained and operated a fleet of mundane transportation vehicles, so for most of my life I have preferred fun cars that exhibit outrageous appearance and behavior.

 

I've never owned the larger Caterham, but having owned a similarly proportioned WCM S2K, I believe I would prefer the SV, as well.  I was looking for an SV when my last Caterham, an incredible Superlight S3, came available.  The car was an absolute work of art - it won my only concours award - and I enjoyed it mightily.  But the tiny cockpit was engineered for more modestly framed and muscled Englishmen, and was definitely constricting.  If I ever re-enter the Seven market, I, like you, will look for the right SV.

 

Nice catching up with you!

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Bruce K

[mrmustang]

3 hours ago, Bruce K said:

@mrmustang  Bill, I guess I am a bit opposite of you.  My 935 Porsche tribute has been a two-owner, 38-year project (I still converse regularly with owner number one).  I've been developing my 4C for 6 years now, and can't imagine selling it.  I get your motivation, however - the world is filled with exciting cars, of which we've both owned shares (yours larger than mine), and it's glorious sampling them. 

 

You are in good company regarding 289 FIA Cobras - many consider them the purest Cobra experience.  The massive engine in my Backdraft definitely dominated the driving experience.  Everything is less traumatic with the 289's:  You receive a more balanced sampling of the car's performance envelope, plus many folks prefer the more classical, less tumescent appearance of the slimmer 289.  Speaking personally, for many years my company has maintained and operated a fleet of mundane transportation vehicles, so for most of my life I have preferred fun cars that exhibit outrageous appearance and behavior.

 

I've never owned the larger Caterham, but having owned a similarly proportioned WCM S2K, I believe I would prefer the SV, as well.  I was looking for an SV when my last Caterham, an incredible Superlight S3, came available.  The car was an absolute work of art - it won my only concours award - and I enjoyed it mightily.  But the tiny cockpit was engineered for more modestly framed and muscled Englishmen, and was definitely constricting.  If I ever re-enter the Seven market, I, like you, will look for the right SV.

 

Nice catching up with you!

 

 

You find you way down this way, let me know, you are always welcome.

 

Plus, the new digs might be finished by then

 

 

[Bruce K]

@mrmustang- a very kind offer.   Can't figure out the proportions of your new garage from the image, but it looks up to 2 cars deep and 2.5 to 3 cars wide - room to both park and work.  I may be in Georgia in several weeks, to pick up my Lola.  If so, we will spend a few days in NC to visit my wife's brother.  Maybe the wife will give me a few hours to visit you, if it is not too far off our required path.  You could show me your collection and I could show you the Lola.   I'll contact you when I know more.

 

Thanks again!

[mrmustang]

3 minutes ago, Bruce K said:

@mrmustang- a very kind offer.   Can't figure out the proportions of your new garage from the image, but it looks up to 2 cars deep and 2.5 to 3 cars wide - room to both park and work.  I may be in Georgia in several weeks, to pick up my Lola.  If so, we will spend a few days in NC to visit my wife's brother.  Maybe the wife will give me a few hours to visit you, if it is not too far off our required path.  You could show me your collection and I could show you the Lola.   I'll contact you when I know more.

 

Thanks again!

30X50 to compensate for the 16x19 converted carport on the house we are renovating as our "forever home". Hoping to be in it by Jan/Feb 2024. Just 2 miles away from our current home. Right time, right place. Yet, I still question my sanity.

We are just a few miles off RT85 near the Michelin Corporate building......Let us know, would love to see the Lola up close and in person.

 

Bill S.

[JohnCh]

I've moved the discussion on the auto repair labor market to a dedicated thread here:  

 

[JohnCh]

Getting this thread back on track, I'll share details of a recent acquisition.  I finally reached a point in my life where I needed something practical and more conventional for daily use.  I'm pretty hardcore when it comes to cars, which is another way of saying I'm impractical and a bit of a masochist.  Case in point, about 9 or 10 years ago, my track-prepped NA Miata slowly began replacing my 993 for daily driving duties.  With Sparco Sprint seats, Schroth harnesses, bolt-on hardtop, roll bar, Flyin Miata suspension, brakes, and chassis stiffeners, it's not a particularly civil or practical car, but it does epitomize that saying about driving a slow car fast being more fun than the inverse, and there is a freedom in not caring where it's parked.  If it gets a door ding or is used for target practice by a colony of Seagulls, big deal.  However, it sucks in the wet, and in the heat (no AC), and on the freeway, and when asked to transport anything bigger than a breadbox.  

 

 

Yes, it was finally time for something I can drive every day of the year regardless of the weather.  Something with modern safety and convenience features that my wife will use on those days when I need to swap for her big SUV, and something that can transport a large dog a short distance.  Pulling the 993's passenger seat so I could take one of the dogs to the vet 5 miles down the road had grown tiresome.  

 

To ensure I would actually use this car regularly, as opposed to my previous attempt at owning a personal utility vehicle, it had to be reasonably small, fun to drive, not so special that I cared about where it was parked or who drives it, and feature a manual transmission. Bonus points if it had good aftermarket support and a solid upgrade path should I opt to do what I always do with the cars I own.

 

I finally settled on a GTI, picking up a 2019 Rabbit edition last month.  This version comes without the sunroof (remember the big dog requirement) and has the LSD, the bigger brakes from the Golf R, the adaptive LED headlights, the iconic Clark plaid seats, and is available in an under-the-radar color.  Much to my surprise, and following upgrades to the tires and shifter, I actually like it.  It's certainly not super focused, or something that encourages you to find an excuse to drive it, but it does successfully meet all my adult requirements.  I'll probably do some modest suspension updates over the winter, and may do a remap for more power, but it's been a pleasant surprise thus far.  

 

 

 

-John

 

[Bruce K]

@johnch - Good to see that you have grown up!  Leaves more toys for the rest of us infants.

 

[slowdude]

New winter beater. 2024 228i x drive. Paint is storm bay metallic, which is nice but not sure on the $1,200 cost.

 

I broke it in on a drive to Florida last December. I've currently got 4600 miles on it since late November.

 

As far as less expensive BMW's go, I'm smitten with the FWD biased car. It's one of the few non-m cars where you can feel the limits of the front wheel traction. The bias does change a bit based on the situation and I've had no problems in the snow. Overall I'm very impressed with this over the 3 series, which is fantastic, but a larger sedan.

[Bruce K]

4 hours ago, slowdude said:

New winter beater. 2024 228i x drive. Paint is storm bay metallic, which is nice but not sure on the $1,200 cost.

 

I broke it in on a drive to Florida last December. I've currently got 4600 miles on it since late November.

 

As far as less expensive BMW's go, I'm smitten with the FWD biased car. It's one of the few non-m cars where you can feel the limits of the front wheel traction. The bias does change a bit based on the situation and I've had no problems in the snow. Overall I'm very impressed with this over the 3 series, which is fantastic, but a larger sedan.

Your beater looks better than many of my best, especially during my younger years.  Very nice!

 

 

[slowdude]

1 hour ago, Bruce K said:

Your beater looks better than many of my best, especially during my younger years.  Very nice!

 

 

I'm very spoiled through a subsidized work car. It's a tough life. Might take a chance on the X2 as the next car. I can't bring myself to have an SUV though.

[wdb]

The old X3 with N52 and 6-speed was a pretty sweet piece*. Can’t speak for the new stuff. 
 

 

* The 3 wagon was still better 

Edited January 18 by wdb

[Marek]

The N52 is a high point in BMW engine history.  My favorite application is the E82 128i - a classic big-engine/small-body car.  My winter beater is a 128i M-Sport manual.  I have a network of friends with the same spec cars.  Besides my Seven, it is the only other car I have with a network of owners.