Driver Safety Gear for Time Trials and USA7s@NJMP

[savagete2860]

I am getting more into tracking my seven and I am going to start participating in time trials as well as (hopefully) attending the USA7s meet at NJMP. This means I have to get dated harnesses, arm restraints, a fire suit, and an FHR device. I actually have the bulk of that list already or on its way, but I am looking to make a few changes.

Harnesses

Right now I have the standard Caterham harnesses and the sub strap to make it a 5 point. These obviously are not dated so I need to replace them. Before I pull the trigger here, I see companies in the UK sell Caterham specific harnesses, including Caterham themselves. Its not clear to me if those harnesses are actually dated though. I'm not sure how some of these harnesses are "designed specifically for a Caterham" either.

 

I'd also prefer to order something state side for numerous reasons. Can I get any old pull down 6 point harness with bolt in brackets, or will something be weird in the Caterham, like the straps are 50 feet long or something else unexpected that might cause issues?

 

What harnesses do people run here that need FIA dated? I am looking at getting something like one of these

 

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=34016 
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=SCH-94530

Then I would also need to get the bolt in style brackets and swap over to those.

 

I actually ordered a set that were one year old so they were 40% off, but they're sewn in brackets with the snap in  style so I need to return them

Arm Restraints

I just ordered these and I think they actually make a lot of sense for our cars (I do enjoy having arms), but I am a little worried about point bys. I am used to giving really obvious point bys which I assume are going to be pretty difficult to do with these. I can probably t-rex a point for a drivers side pass, but not sure about a passenger side pass. A lot of the HPDE organizations I run with do not allow turn signal point bys. Also I am worried the rear wheel fenders will obstruct the view of my restrained point bys as well. Have any of you had issues there? I will know soon enough when I get them in the mail, but I am curious to hear others experiences giving and receiving point bys from a restrained seven driver.

 

FHR

Like the arm restraints, this makes sense. Running harnesses, probably a good idea to do what you can to keep your head attached to your neck. I currently have a Simpson Hybrid S from tracking a Lotus Elise with a 3 point belt. Right now, at least with the standard Caterham harnesses, clipping in the rings from the Simpson Hybrid S into the shoulder straps is a real struiggle sometimes, especially when youre running late to the grid. Also, the back of the apparatus hits the seats making it a little uncomfortable. I think I would like to switch to a standard FHR device, but the shoulder strap angle and placement is out of whack on Caterhams woith factory mount points. They supposed to be between 0 and 20 degrees below the shoulders, ideally at 10 degrees and the mounts are supposed to be much closer together. Is it even possible to correct this? What do people do here? Just run at the incorrect angle? If this is a significant hurdle, maybe sticking with the standard mount points and my hybrid S is the best option.

 

 

 

[cobra8214]

I recently did a lot of research on harnesses - I am equally, if not more concerned about safety on the street than on the track, so wanted something that would be great for street driving as well, which was the driving factor for my decision. I decided on the Schroth Profi II 4 pt ASM FE harness, with the sub strap attachment. The plan is to wear the 4 pt harness on the street, and then add in the substrap to make it a 6 pt when on track.

 

This way, I'm covered with a 6 pt harness on the track, and I have a harness for the street that:

• Is street legal (the FE cam lock makes this so). Probably not a big deal, but I don't want to give any over-zealous policeman around here an excuse to write me a ticket
• Is easy to put on - I don't have to put on the sub strap every time I want to hop in the car
• Most importantly, provides protection against both submarining and neck injury. I am concerned about a 4 pt harness making neck injury on the street more likely compared to a 3 pt harness (since your torso is more restrained with a 4 pt), but the ASM component (piece of the shoulder belt that gives way in a crash, allowing one side of your torso to twist forward) helps with this by allowing your torso to move in the event of an accident, reducing stress on the neck.

 

[JohnCh]

Another vote for the Schroth ASM FE. An additional benefit is they allow you to not only get the lap adjustment buckle quite close to the cam lock -- helpful if you have the composite seats -- but you can configure the lap belts as either pull up or pull down. I like pull down on the driver's side because it positions the excess belt material off my lap and I rarely need to adjust them. However, for the passenger side I like the pull up configuration, since I usually have to belt in newbies, and it's much easier to do that from outside the car with the pull up orientation than trying to explain to them how to do it themselves with the pull down style. 

[Pokey]

2 hours ago, savagete2860 said:

Arm Restraints

I just ordered these and I think they actually make a lot of sense for our cars (I do enjoy having arms), but I am a little worried about point bys. I am used to giving really obvious point bys which I assume are going to be pretty difficult to do with these. I can probably t-rex a point for a drivers side pass, but not sure about a passenger side pass. A lot of the HPDE organizations I run with do not allow turn signal point bys. Also I am worried the rear wheel fenders will obstruct the view of my restrained point bys as well. Have any of you had issues there? I will know soon enough when I get them in the mail, but I am curious to hear others experiences giving and receiving point bys from a restrained seven driver.

 

FHR

Like the arm restraints, this makes sense. Running harnesses, probably a good idea to do what you can to keep your head attached to your neck. I currently have a Simpson Hybrid S from tracking a Lotus Elise with a 3 point belt. Right now, at least with the standard Caterham harnesses, clipping in the rings from the Simpson Hybrid S into the shoulder straps is a real struiggle sometimes, especially when youre running late to the grid. Also, the back of the apparatus hits the seats making it a little uncomfortable. I think I would like to switch to a standard FHR device, but the shoulder strap angle and placement is out of whack on Caterhams woith factory mount points. They supposed to be between 0 and 20 degrees below the shoulders, ideally at 10 degrees and the mounts are supposed to be much closer together. Is it even possible to correct this? What do people do here? Just run at the incorrect angle? If this is a significant hurdle, maybe sticking with the standard mount points and my hybrid S is the best option.

 

I'm still able to point wearing arm restraints.  I imagine my hands aren't as noticeable, but I've never had anyone mention an issue seeing me point.  For what it is worth, I like the restraint style that has a single loop to attach to the harness.

 

For the head/neck restraint, there is chatter in the UK about having mounting points added by Arch:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.academyracer.co.uk%2Fhans-adjustment-arch-motor-manufacturing-co-ltd%2F&ved=0CAEQ1fkOahcKEwj4qcvUycOVAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQBw&opi=89978449

 

Makes sense and I am curious as to whether anyone has ever seen a car in the US modified as such?  I'm using a NecksGen and the factory mount points.

 

 

[CBuff]

I went thru this when I purchased my car in 2023.  
 

 

I planned on using 4 pt on street and 6 point track. So the asm feature appealed to me.  As it turns out I prefer running 6pt all the time, it names me more comfortable to have the subs keep the buckle low. 

 

as @JohnCh mentioned the profi can be configured pull up or pull down.  They can also be ordered with bolt in hardware. They come standard with wrapped in clip in but can be easily switched over to bolt in (they have a ton of different versions so this take some planning to figure out which bolt in hardware goes where).  My installer originally put in eye loops in the floor for the subs but it fouled the seat squab (leather seats). I changed this to bolt in easy enough.  Some folks use subs straps on leather seats bolted to the rear bulkhead and run them over the seat squab.  This usually requires longer sub straps which schroth said they don’t make any more. There is likely a solution to this somewhere but I just had mine bolted to the floor before the seats with appropriate plating 
 

I was originally concerned about the shoulder harness angle.  So much so that I avoided getting lowered floors. This just made me fit for the broomstick test. Honestly I have not seen anyone too concerned about the shoulder strap angle (currently I am about dead level if not a little positive ). It turned out to be less of an issue - but broomstick def would be.  
 

beside looking like a knob, the point by thing with arm restraints is manageable.  It takes some getting used to driving with you hands tied down. 
 

 

 

[savagete2860]

Thanks for the info - I am going to go with the Schroth Flexi harnesses and bolt in style mounts since it seems we don't need to run "special" harnesses in our cars as long as they are bolt in. The Schroth ASM FE seem nice but I am really struggling to find the sub belt anywhere in stock and I don't think id ever use whatever harness I end up with in a 4 point fashion to worry about submarining. I do like the idea of the big red easy button though.

 

FHR wise, I think I am going to stick with my current Simpson hybrid S. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel. I did see our friends across the pond recommending the work be done at Arch to make the harnesses correct, but i have no idea what they actually do. Maybe I will reach out at some point and ask if they would be willing to share. I will report back if I can find anything out.

[jhenson29]

I ended up ordering the 3” Schroth 6-point Caterham offers with my kit instead of the Caterham 4-point. No idea if this was a good choice or not. I looked at the profi asm and thought those would be the best choice for similar reasons others have mentioned, but figured I’d try these first. I’ve never had a car with harnesses and wasn’t sure if there would be fit issues ordering separately. I thought ordering from Caterham with the kit would make it more likely everything works together out of the box. Not sure that’s really correct. But that’s what I did. I think they are less expensive to order this way too because they are substituting the stock 4-point. 

 

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/seatbelts-harnesses/7023-schroth-6-point-lh-2018-063-sr.html

 

I also have a hybrid s from a previous 3-point car I plan to reuse. At least until I try it and decide I want to change. 

[Vovchandr]

Too much yellow in this thread 

[JohnCh]

1 hour ago, Vovchandr said:

Too much yellow in this thread 

 

Sometimes I really love AI.

 

[Croc]

1 hour ago, JohnCh said:

 

Sometimes I really love AI.

 

 

I like it.  Goes well with how green the owner looks right about now.  Such a delicate constitution.  
 

 

[CBuff]

5 hours ago, jhenson29 said:

 

I ended up ordering the 3” Schroth 6-point Caterham offers with my kit instead of the Caterham 4-point. No idea if this was a good choice or not. I looked at the profi asm and thought those would be the best choice for similar reasons others have mentioned, but figured I’d try these first. I’ve never had a car with harnesses and wasn’t sure if there would be fit issues ordering separately. I thought ordering from Caterham with the kit would make it more likely everything works together out of the box. Not sure that’s really correct. But that’s what I did. I think they are less expensive to order this way too because they are substituting the stock 4-point. 

 

I would just confirm they are dated belts. Many tracks won’t accept non dated 

[jhenson29]

11 hours ago, CBuff said:

I would just confirm they are dated belts. Many tracks won’t accept non dated 

Good call! I guess I just assumed all of the Schroth ones were. 
I emailed Caterham and they confirmed 5 year dates. 👍

[Croc]

9 hours ago, jhenson29 said:

Good call! I guess I just assumed all of the Schroth ones were. 
I emailed Caterham and they confirmed 5 year dates. 👍

 

Bullshit - be careful with Caterham with dated belts.  They have said they have expiry dates and then you get them and they have no expiry label.  Thats a non starter at NJMP and many other locations.  

 

Go with Schroth.  Safer and known quantity

 

[jhenson29]

28 minutes ago, Croc said:

 

Bullshit - be careful with Caterham with dated belts.  They have said they have expiry dates and then you get them and they have no expiry label.  Thats a non starter at NJMP and many other locations.  

 

Go with Schroth.  Safer and known quantity

 

These are Schroth belts, just ordered through Caterham with the kit. They had 2 Schroth options I could order as substitutions (for a cost) for the Caterham 4-point. One is 2” and one is 3”. I went with the 3”. 
 

I also found another post from someone saying they ordered Schroth from Caterham and they were dated.