New guy. Here is my Cat

[Vovchandr]

3 hours ago, wemtd said:

There is a discussion forum on the Haltech web page & some basic information in the manuals for the Sport line of ECU’s. All regarding settings and lots of Q & A in the forum.

 

I'll look into it

 

3 hours ago, Kitcat said:

What about posting your dilemma on the FocusFanatics Forum? They have tons of experience with Zetec SVT's. And a word search for Pectel showed a number of threads.

 

I've looked through most of the Pectel threads, but I'll consider reaching out in general as well. At a glance it appears ITB's in general were not a very common upgrade for the Focus community. Most went FI.

 

I'm also in touch with Tom in regards to planning future tuning. Maybe I'll pick his brain on the matter as well.

 

 

In the meantime, Borla/TWM got back to me with some interesting information

 

There is no TPS adjustment on the ITB's. Confirmed.

They also said that 10% voltage at idle and 90% at WOT are normal. 10% at idle I can see, injectors need to be firing at least some fuel without IAC to keep engine spinning. 90% at WOT as normal was surprising to me. 

[Vovchandr]

You know how all great aviation failures are a combination of multiple events gone wrong?

 

Well I'm discovering that besides my out of control revving yesterday I've discovered that my throttle is getting stuck as well. Different symptom different fix. Occasionally upon coming to a stop my throttle would need a hard push on the pedal to "break lose". Yesterday driving home my throttle would get stuck while accelerating and I would have to hard blip the throttle to let it settle back down.

 

This is on a brand new cable/housing.

 

I've taken the whole thing apart and measured out the location where it gets tight/stuck. It's right above the exhaust.

 

Compared it to the old throttle cable I replaced and it would get tight right around the same area (marked with tape).

 

Not sure what my current solution would be for this. Cable seems fine in a new housing. These have a plastic liner inside to help them glide easier being motorcycle cables.

 

I'll either have to have a cable set without the liner or find a better routing. 

 

As of right now since only replacement I have on hand is with plastic liner I'm going to try a slightly different route.  

Edited June 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

Fixed the cable. Went out for a test drive and now I'm back to bring broken down. 

 

Same issue as the other day with idling out of control at about the same spot. This time I took careful mental notes. 

 

It does apply throttle when in gear as well. Felt like cruise control. I lifted off the gas on the highway but the car kept cruising. I quickly downshifted and it revved in between and then kept cruising like on cruise control. It would maintain speed at lower gears down to 20mph or so and then accelerate down hill. Struggled coming to a stop while in gear. Not sure what throttle it's applying but it's not WOT. 

 

Went to check the cable. It's not taunt on the throttle body. So I went to bump up the idle in case my theory was correct and TPS is triggering the 90% input. 

 

It got higher than I wanted but the run away condition hasn't returned.

 

Then I tried to dial in the idle with the screw to where I and the car would be happy. No luck. 

 

Too low and it wants to stall. Too high and it's problematic in another way. Besides that, I think if it's too high in ITBs it runs lean and overheats at idle. 

 

Which is what happened as we speak. Kept messing with it. Temperature pegged and coolant spilled. 

 

It was interesting cause there was a backfire I captured on camera right before temp shot up and car went to stall

 

Edit: it also started to give me issues starting before overheating. See videos below 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

while waiting for the cooldown, might as well upload videos 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: short hand video urls aren’t working. Copying full proper url before video address doesn’t work either. I’ll fix links when I get home

 

Also not sure why videos are vertical when I made sure I was holding phone horizontally

 

 

This is the backfire in cylinder #1 that I saw right before it stalled and overheated.

 

Not sure if it's an issue but it's certainly an outlier

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

I think I just solved one problem. The partial throttle input is likely caused by my cable shield popping out of the housing and getting stuck on the housing. This is the first time I've gotten to observe it and catch it. 

 

Checked the ecu and it's reading 20% TPS when it gets stuck, which explains at least some things. 

 

It's the black shield stuck on silver bung. Will fix tomorrow and continue texting. 

 

Still doesn't explain overheating but should help narrow things down

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

I'm running out of ideas. As I chase one thing down more problems appear.

 

Went to bleed the air today after last nights violent over boil and it violently bled air and made all sorts of mess.

 

For starters I'm not sure why there is such a huge variation in level while running. Before thermostat opens the volume in bleeding funnel grows and grows to the point where I had to take some out. Then thermostat opened and the violent reaction seen in the video happens.

 

It got so violent I had to shut it down before I got anything into the air filter and risked hydro locking.

 

Didn't help during all this I was still having rev hang. 

 

Then during cool down process at the end of the video I heard strange crackling from the overflow tank that I've never heard before. I'll have to chase that noise down as well. After the noise stopped the coolant from the funnel all got taken in all of a sudden.

 

I have no idea whats happening. Compression test was done last year. Leakdown test was done last year. Gas in coolant test done at same time. Granted maybe I need to do this again but I've had similar volume/bleeding issues last year during all this as well, which caused the testing to begin with.

 

 

In the meantime the car would drive fine, stay at temp. Fan kicks on when needed. No real issues other than last nights violent overboil while messing with idle. Video above. Likely same thing that happened here. 

 

Coolant is just water. Brown is due to rusty water rail. 

 

 

 

 

Likely going to end up changing the head gasket and water pump at this point. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

Starting to think head gasket might explain a lot of my issues, including idle issues. 

[ashyers]

Before you go down the head gasket route I'd suggest you get a good bleed on the cooling system and put a known good pressure cap/expansion tank combo on it. Without a pressure cap it doesn't surprise me that you boiled the water doing your test. I suspect the temp in the head managed 212F+ leading to the boil over, even if the Tstat was open and the fan was on. The margin between the fan switching on and 212F is not huge.

 

I have a similar system with a heater and put a T fitting in one of the heater lines that is the highest point in the system. This allows me to fill from there and get the air out. I also replaced the cap and expansion tank when I started seeing inconsistent levels. The cap/tank combo had stopped sealing well and was bleeding coolant occasionally. To get levels on target I fill the system using the T, drive the vehicle and get it up to temp. and then check the level when it has cooled.

 

 

[Croc]

@Vovchandr I have been trying to work out how to make a comment for a few hours now.  Much has passed through my mind, mostly four letter words, at least one six letter and another two eight letter words. 

 

That video was ugly.  So I know you have had a bad day.   

 

Priorities: Given you cannot solve the ignition/firing/fueling equation until you have a working cooling system, you have to put those problems aside for now.  

 

I would start with @ashyers test for pressurization and bleeding out air.  That is a very sensible spot to start checking.  

 

Coolant should not look like diarrhea.  A rusty water rail does not do that.  I have had cars sit in storage for 30 years without running and their coolant is not that bad when I flush the system once as I start the recommissioning.  

 

Assuming Ashyers well-suggested test fails and you continue to have cooling system issues, then you have two immediate tasks:

1) Test for oil in your coolant.  Visually I think it is there from that video.  However, go to NAPA and buy the Acustrip test strips and do a couple of tests off that.  Answers on the spot.  There are other brands of contamination test strips you can buy that achieve the same purpose.

2) Test for coolant in your oil.  Either drop the sump or go in via the cam cover opening.  I suggest the sump is best.  Again use the specific Acustrip test strips (its a different test though).  

 

Assume you get through that, then you are looking at doing separate compression and leak down tests to corroborate the contamination tests.  

 

At that point you will know where you are with the head gasket.  If it has gone then you will need to test whether the block is still intact or has gone porous/cracked.  

[coffee break]

I've had the cable shield out of place happen and cause excessive revving also. A little bailing wire and tie-wraps so so you can tame that.

[Vovchandr]

@Croc and @ashyers thank you guys. I like that plan and go with that.

 

Croc you're right, this needs to be figured out first. I've gotten advice to also pull the Tstat and flush (I heard using a hose?) the entire engine as well as run a descale through it to get things clear. I believe there is a plug on the engine block.

 

I'll do oil test and coolant test. 

 

Coolant/Water has been brown since I've bought the car. 

 

This leads me to a realization.

 

Car was not in good working order when I bought it. Radiator fan wasn't even connected. Without knowing exactly what previous owner did to it, it's not out of the realm of possibility that it has been over heated during previous ownership. It would start and operate but it had no means of cooling down. This could potentially have lead to emulsification as Croc has suggested which would explain why coolant has never really been clear. I'm not certain what the brown mixture and deposits really are. Is there a good test for the deposits?

 

@coffee break thats a good idea! Glad to hear somebody else had a similar problem. This morning I used electrical tape as a temporary solution to continue other troubleshooting (before I ran into the bigger issues). Your solution sounds like a much more permanent avenue, knowing how well electrical tape would perform long term near the engine block. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Croc]

 

Just for clarity, we are trying to solve two problems in a sequence of 3 tests:

 

1) Does the cooling system pressurize/operate properly?  

 

If yes then maybe the head gasket is good?  If not then it could be simply clogged coolant galleys with rust.   Go to step 2 to continue evaluation

 

2) Dirty coolant.  Is it rust sediment in the coolant/water or possible emulsified oil in the coolant?  

 

Give it a thorough flush once or twice with the de-rust coolant flush and see if it comes clear

 

3) If not clear of sediment or brown results after two flushes then test for oil in coolant with the test strips.  Do a test on coolant in oil at same time.  

 

Evaluate results

 

A couple of things.  A garden hose will not have the pressure to flush a cooling system thoroughly.  The pros use a hose with compressed air attachment like this:

 

 

It is probably a needed piece since you have something producing sediment - maybe rusty lower coolant galleys inside the block or water pump if it sat with just water there for any length.  Wonder if you can rent it?  Or have a mobile mechanic with the kit come and do it?

 

Yes you need a rust remover coolant flush, probably two.  By the second go it should be clear or close to clear output.  If not, it will be an intriguing problem.  

 

The test for deposits is the same as the test for oil in coolant.  That will give the result whether oil is in coolant or not.  If yes then you rebuild and you will be clearing the oil and water galleys inside the block as part of that process plus testing the block for splits/warp/porosity - so any rust will go away in that process.  If not then it is almost certainly rust and if it does not clear up with the de-rust flush process then you need to consider three suspects at that point - water pump, radiator or block.   

 

 

 

 

[Vovchandr]

12 minutes ago, Croc said:

 

Just for clarity, we are trying to solve two problems in a sequence of 3 tests:

 

1) Does the cooling system pressurize/operate properly?  

 

If yes then maybe the head gasket is good?  If not then it could be simply clogged coolant galleys with rust.   Go to step 2 to continue evaluation

 

2) Dirty coolant.  Is it rust sediment in the coolant/water or possible emulsified oil in the coolant?  

 

Give it a thorough flush once or twice with the de-rust coolant flush and see if it comes clear

 

3) If not clear of sediment or brown results after two flushes then test for oil in coolant with the test strips.  Do a test on coolant in oil at same time.  

 

Evaluate results

 

A couple of things.  A garden hose will not have the pressure to flush a cooling system thoroughly.  The pros use a hose with compressed air attachment like this:

 

 

It is probably a needed piece since you have something producing sediment - maybe rusty lower coolant galleys inside the block or water pump if it sat with just water there for any length.  Wonder if you can rent it?  Or have a mobile mechanic with the kit come and do it?

 

Yes you need a rust remover coolant flush, probably two.  By the second go it should be clear or close to clear output.  If not, it will be an intriguing problem.  

 

The test for deposits is the same as the test for oil in coolant.  That will give the result whether oil is in coolant or not.  If yes then you rebuild and you will be clearing the oil and water galleys inside the block as part of that process plus testing the block for splits/warp/porosity - so any rust will go away in that process.  If not then it is almost certainly rust and if it does not clear up with the de-rust flush process then you need to consider three suspects at that point - water pump, radiator or block.   

 

 

 

 

 

That sounds like a good plan.

 

For 1) I'd need to hook up a vacuum test correct? 

 

Can I hook up my pressure washer into the system to give it more power than a garden hose? I don't have air on hand. I'm sure I can find an angle/entry point where the initial force isn't damaging (also a more spreading nozzle) and the overall pressure will carry throughout. Just a thought. Otherwise I can ask around my shop friends to see if anybody has that piece of kit to borrow. 

 

I'll be doing the flush this week. 

 

Back in March I did this 10x times to get it to clear without going into the motor/past Tstat/without starting just by refilling and emptying the radiator and massaging the hoses and using a radiator flush solution. This time obviously I'll be doing a more throughout/proper solution. 

 

  

On 3/28/2021 at 3:27 AM, Vovchandr said:

For my overheating voes decided to flush the coolant a few times (10x without even starting it until it went more clear)

 

Still can't start until ITB's come back from being rebuilt

 

Thanks everybody for the help so far. 

[Croc]

38 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

 

For 1) I'd need to hook up a vacuum test correct? 

 

No.  I would follow what @ashyers recommended for step 1.  Copied below for ease of reference.  

 

 

Before you go down the head gasket route I'd suggest you get a good bleed on the cooling system and put a known good pressure cap/expansion tank combo on it. Without a pressure cap it doesn't surprise me that you boiled the water doing your test. I suspect the temp in the head managed 212F+ leading to the boil over, even if the Tstat was open and the fan was on. The margin between the fan switching on and 212F is not huge.

 

I have a similar system with a heater and put a T fitting in one of the heater lines that is the highest point in the system. This allows me to fill from there and get the air out. I also replaced the cap and expansion tank when I started seeing inconsistent levels. The cap/tank combo had stopped sealing well and was bleeding coolant occasionally. To get levels on target I fill the system using the T, drive the vehicle and get it up to temp. and then check the level when it has cooled.

 

 

Not sure about using a pressure washer.  My instinctive reaction is no.  You want just enough water to dislodge the shit out of its hiding places and then the air to be carried out to be flushed.  I'd see what your shop friends have first.  

[Vovchandr]

13 minutes ago, Croc said:

 

No.  I would follow what @ashyers recommended for step 1.  Copied below for ease of reference.  

 

 

Before you go down the head gasket route I'd suggest you get a good bleed on the cooling system and put a known good pressure cap/expansion tank combo on it. Without a pressure cap it doesn't surprise me that you boiled the water doing your test. I suspect the temp in the head managed 212F+ leading to the boil over, even if the Tstat was open and the fan was on. The margin between the fan switching on and 212F is not huge.

 

I have a similar system with a heater and put a T fitting in one of the heater lines that is the highest point in the system. This allows me to fill from there and get the air out. I also replaced the cap and expansion tank when I started seeing inconsistent levels. The cap/tank combo had stopped sealing well and was bleeding coolant occasionally. To get levels on target I fill the system using the T, drive the vehicle and get it up to temp. and then check the level when it has cooled.

 

 

Not sure about using a pressure washer.  My instinctive reaction is no.  You want just enough water to dislodge the shit out of its hiding places and then the air to be carried out to be flushed.  I'd see what your shop friends have first.  

 

Thanks for reposting that. On my first read I thought that he was talking about a purge system such as this and thats what I was planning on using to test 1) whether system holds vacuum/pressure and 2) to refill the system without air pockets. 

 

@ashyers I've replaced the OEM cap with a new good cap as one of the first things I've done when troubleshooting. The expansion tank is unchanged. Can't I just test it with either the pressure test above or taking it off, putting fingers on holes and blowing into it if it needs a test?

 

The reason why I have that type funnel setup is due to what mechanics have advised me this will create the highest point in the system to bleed the air out. Doesn't this setup achieve the same as you're suggesting with T'ing into the heater system? I've done this in the past without pressuring it and I've never had this boiling effect. Not saying it isn't boiling now, it certainly seems to be, but under normal circumstances as I recall this type of funnel has worked fine even at operating temp without sealed pressure. 

 

I'll start reaching out to shops and friends to see what I can secure for tools.

[JohnCh]

I'm still recovering from watching your last video, but towards the end I did notice what appears to be a bleed port on the top driver's side of your radiator.  Hard to see from the angles, but it also looks like that might be higher than your expansion tank.  If it is, another option is to jack up the front of the car as high as you can to raise that point, and bleed from there.

 

 

That said, methodically following the steps outlined by @Croc and @ashyers should be your first course of action.  For power flushing, check with your local auto parts stores.  One of them may have something available for rent and you can probably rent a small nail gun air compressor from Home Depot.  

-John

 

[Croc]

1 hour ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Thanks for reposting that. On my first read I thought that he was talking about a purge system such as this and thats what I was planning on using to test 1) whether system holds vacuum/pressure and 2) to refill the system without air pockets. 

 

 

I read the post and it was check the cap is doing the right pressure/put a good new one on it and then do a proper bleed.  @JohnCh made a good suggestion of jacking up the front of the car to elevate the high point for bleeding.  

 

You could try one of those fancy dancy pressure kits but I believe the simplest test is the best one to try first.  

[ashyers]

That's an iron block engine, right? The color of the coolant is not surprising if there was no antifreeze or corrosion preventative in it. It will turn rust colored pretty darn quick. As far as plugging things up, if there were not any chunks coming out I wouldn't worry about it at this time, I doubt it has plugged anything. Typically the heater core is plugged first, it has the smallest passages, think of it like a bypass filter ! I'd just flush with water at no more  that normal water pressure. Don't use a pressure washer. You may consider replacing the T-stat. if the coolant temp was jumping around. If it's overheated badly that will often kill 'em. I don't think you're boil over would do it, you only hit 212F.

 

As far as expansion tanks and caps, I have the older round one, but was able to find the interchange and pick up an OEM tank and cap as a pair very quickly and inexpensively. The cap/tank interface on mine was wonky and that drove me nuts for a while trying to sort out.

 

Those evacuation set ups are OK, but a pressure tester may be more useful in this case. The T fitting is an easy way to get the air out before start up. The funnels work, but if there's a big old bubble in the heater core it has a tough time making it through the system to burp out the funnel. When it does it's often exciting.

[CarlB]

 The pressure vacuum tester you are showing above might not be the tool you want, if you haven't already gotten it. Stant makes a tool I think will do a better job for you. There are several manufactures that make similar tool so you might want to shop. the advantage to this tool is you can test the radiator cap separately. To test the head gasket you want to do it with a cold engine. If it holds when it is cold, it will hold when it is hot because everything expands. My Zetec car does not have a heater and I use the same funnel you have. It works great. I bleed the top of the radiator when I get coolant in the funnel. Then I run the car until the thermostat opens. That will get the air out of my car. I have a Raceline water manifold, but I do not think it will make any difference. I did not have a problem before I installed the Raceline part. If your heater works you probably do not have clogged water passages. when you are bleeding the air from the system make sure the heater is on full blast. There are two types of chemical cooling system flushes. Acid based cleaner/ flushes with a neutralizer if it was harsh enough, or base cleaners. The good ones are no longer on the market. Most are base cleaners. 90% of them are baking soda. Baking soda was the neutralizer when the cleaner was oakite.  Baking soda might get your system clean. Flush the system without the thermostat and let the engine run until it gets up to temperature. drain that and flush again with fresh water. If that comes out clean you are good. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Stant-12270-Cooling-System-Pressure/dp/B0002SRGWU     

[Vovchandr]

Disclaimer: There is a lot of information and I'm trying to follow it step by step. Particularly @Croc's order

 

Todays progress

1) Thermostat removed

2) Corrosion found in Heater valve. Completely removed and hard connected right now to partition it out. New one is on order. 

3) Everything is flushed with hose until clear.

4) Oil cap inspected. No residues (but I don't expect to get milky with water vs coolant either?)

5) Discovered that Champion sells a coolant filter with a see through window. Ordered to help keep an eye on debris and bubbles. 

6) Looked into T's with bleeder. Found these options

and

 

Neither is readily available but I'll order either one. Not particularly happy with plastic options but it's a means to an end. 

 

Results:

1) Ran it until hot with extra tall funnel without pressure. Things stayed relatively clear and then started to expand greatly towards 80 degrees and overflowed again. Likely a normal result. Shut it down and closed cap off (topped to the max)

2) Drove it to work just a few miles. Seemed to run alright. Went to restart in the parking lot and was struggling to start. Pulled around the building and temp climbed past 80 into hot territory and spilled out passed cap when shut down. Likely overfilled and also expected?

 

Pending:

NAPA test strips and radiator flush fluids

Sourcing power flushing

More driving to see get the air to collect in expansion tank and see if color of water changes. 

 

Notes:

Car is already nose up in my sloped driveway. You can see how tilted the level is. The funnel is highest point for sure. 

@ashyersyes iron block

Using tap water while troubleshooting. Will switch to distilled for summer use once more confident I don't need to drain again. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Vovchandr