2021 Caterham CSR "CatKong"

[Croc]

@TurboWood  Yes it is update time.  

 

This project got put on the backburner in 2020 due to Covid interruptions then in 2021 with Beachman Racing having a record Caterham sales season with all of you buying Caterhams.  It did not help that I was sidetracked with a number of other car projects on the car plus a day job.  

 

So things have restarted and progress is moving forward again.

 

Dash wiring has come together.

 

 

 

While it looks like a spaghetti, there is a method in the madness.  Left side of photo is wiring for AIM MXS digital dash and all the toggle switches.  The black circular thing in center is the air tank for the pneumatic gearshifter mechanism.  The velcro covered black box on right plus the silver metal box above it is the immobilizer.  

 

The dash was a custom carbon one from Westermann/MOG Racing as a custom layout was needed.  Caterham are unable to supply blank dashes within the lifetime of an average human these days.  Unlike the original carbon dash from Caterham, which was bonded to the dash frame, this new one has been attached with phillips head screws so it can be removed easily for maintenance.  The scuttle that covers this has also been designed to be removable for maintenance - no rivets used.  

 

The air tank will have a purge drain into the passenger footwell - easily reached from underneath.  

 

Looking at the dash - not quite finished but close:

 

 

 

From left to right:

- blue tape is where the small LED indicator for the gears will be installed.  I could delete this and have the gear indication on the AIM digital dash but then you take away valuable screen real estate. 

- metal toggle is for horn - I frequently use it on track for Porsche, Corvettes and possibly a red Caterham that gets in my way.

- AIM MXS digital dash. 

- Steering wheel is temporarily mocked up.  It will need to be spaced closer to driver.

- metal toggle switch for flashing headlights on track for more pesky cars in the way.

- Then 6 metal toggle switches for headlights, etc.  This will be road registered so need to comply.  I like the 620R layout with the half arch switch protectors as it allows positive control by a hand bouncing around at 100mph when you are on a track.   Its not the most stylish look I admit but it does work well.  

- Then there are 2 rotary switches.  These are for traction control and launch control.  

- The small LED screen is for the active suspension.  6 presets.  Not designed to be used on the go but can be reached if needed.

- The blue tape on far right is where fire extinguisher activation handle will be installed.  

 

Its a neat tidy layout that suits me based on how I like things.  I recognize not everyone will like it.  

 

The tunnel will be covered by a custom Oxted Trimming tunnel cover - diamond quilted black leather.  Thread for the diamond quilting is in green to match the Aston Martin green paint.  

 

 

 

 

[Croc]

Now it is time for some catch tank porn.  Only on this forum would this be a thing.  

 

Bruce found a place in Oregon called Radium

Radium - Home Page (radiumauto.com)

 

Gorgeous stuff.  So we have an oil catch tank:

 

 

 

Still yet to be mounted but in mock up for firewall engine bay layout planning.  The black bottom unscrews to empty the oil.  The little nubby thing to the left of the connection on top is a catch tank dipstick.

 

The Caterham coolant tank disappears and is replaced by this:

 

 

 

 

Coolant level indicator on the side for working out level.  

 

These are all anodized metal.  No plastic.  Highest quality catch tanks as I have ever seen.  Bruce and I were in maximum geek out mode checking these out.  Lovely things.  

 

 

[Vovchandr]

Those parts look aircraft grade. Very nice!

 

Re-dash. Are new Caterham CF dashes also vertically oriented for the CF pattern? They switched to vertical instead of diagonal pattern for front and rear fenders, blinker pods, aero screen and I can only assume the dash as well. I personally don't care for the vertical so you're probably better off. 

[Rosteri]

Nice to see an update, thanks! That air tank looks very very familiar... I'm just CNC machining some brackets for mine. 

[Croc]

Then it comes to laying out the firewall kit.  

 

Layout is critical as there is a lot going on - you need a space for a very large ECU.  The MBE 9A9 is several times larger than the Caterham MBE ECU which is supplied.  We need space for a coolant overflow based on proximity to engine cooling system.  We need space for the oil catch tank based on proximity to the Pace dry sump tank.   The battery has to be there too.  And all of this needs to be logically connected by wires.

 

 

 

So working from left to right:

- the triangle tank is the dry sump tank surrounding by some gold insulation.  Bruce thought I would like some bling and I thoroughly approve.  

- Behind it is the oil catch tank to be mounted on the firewall.  These engines throw off a fair amount of oil but the plumbing design for this one fixes the failings present in the Caterham CSR260 Cosworth 2.3L Duratec.  So hopefully it will not be like the Exxon Valdez.

- moving right the Odyssey PC680 battery.  

- The MBE 9A9 ECU.  This will be mounted on a shock absorbing tray to elevate and protect it better.  On top will be a passive wiring box intended to map the existing Caterham wiring harness plus all the new sensors and additional kit into the ECU.  For size comparison, you can see the standard Caterham MBE ECU to right on pedal box.  Its location in the center is critical as we have wires running to the dash, to the back of the car, to the battery, and to the engine.

- then we have the coolant catch tank to be mounted on the firewall.  

- standard brake fluid reservoir.  

 

Everything has been carefully thought out for future access and maintenance.

  

 

 

 

Next steps:

- sort out wiring and linkages to integrate pneumatic gear shifters with paddles and with sadev gearbox.

- sort out passive wiring box that maps existing harness to new ECU and allows connection of the new sensors (e.g. suspension, ABS, dash, additional gauge monitoring, etc).

 

 

 

[Croc]

13 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

Re-dash. Are new Caterham CF dashes also vertically oriented for the CF pattern? They switched to vertical instead of diagonal pattern for front and rear fenders, blinker pods, aero screen and I can only assume the dash as well. I personally don't care for the vertical so you're probably better off. 

 

The original Caterham dash that had been removed was in the workshop but I did not pay attention sorry.  The carbon Caterham supply is second rate.  The carbon wings are just a layover of carbon on fiberglass.  If you go back to 2010 with my last CSR, it was a true carbon wing - carbon fiber the whole way through.  So it is just dressed up fiberglass now.  Caterham also have supply issues - no way of getting a blank dash in my lifetime. 

 

Alternatives to buying carbon fiber from Caterham?

 

MOG Racing does have a quality supplier of carbon and was the only way I could find to get a blank dash to do this project.  Pricey but excellent quality.  Its worth paying the extra as they will deliver what you need.

 

There is Classic Carbon but they have a reputation of taking money and never shipping. Thats is what happened to 2 out of 3 of my orders and I have heard quite a few others complain of same.  The piece I did get was poor quality. 

 

Reverie has a limited range of high quality carbon parts for Caterhams but you do need to do the home work in advance on whether it will fit your application.  Some pieces I have purchased do not fit without some work.

 

Lesson - you get what you pay for.  

[lucky dawg]

27 minutes ago, Croc said:

... Highest quality catch tanks as I have ever seen.  Bruce and I were in maximum geek out mode checking these out.  Lovely things.  

 

 

I totally understand. Bruce still gets excited thinking about the 3rd brake light he designed for me almost 10 years ago. In fairness, it is very nice.

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, Croc said:

 

The original Caterham dash that had been removed was in the workshop but I did not pay attention sorry.  The carbon Caterham supply is second rate.  The carbon wings are just a layover of carbon on fiberglass.  If you go back to 2010 with my last CSR, it was a true carbon wing - carbon fiber the whole way through.  So it is just dressed up fiberglass now.  Caterham also have supply issues - no way of getting a blank dash in my lifetime. 

 

Alternatives to buying carbon fiber from Caterham?

 

MOG Racing does have a quality supplier of carbon and was the only way I could find to get a blank dash to do this project.  Pricey but excellent quality.  Its worth paying the extra as they will deliver what you need.

 

There is Classic Carbon but they have a reputation of taking money and never shipping. Thats is what happened to 2 out of 3 of my orders and I have heard quite a few others complain of same.  The piece I did get was poor quality. 

 

Reverie has a limited range of high quality carbon parts for Caterhams but you do need to do the home work in advance on whether it will fit your application.  Some pieces I have purchased do not fit without some work.

 

Lesson - you get what you pay for.  

 

Its alright. I was just curious. You've given me a second reason not to have too much faith into the new CC CF products. I know I won't buy any vertical orientation unless I absolutely had to.

 

Right now I have a pending order from Westermann for a few more missing parts. I'm sure I'll be quite happy with the product. The unfortunate price tag (justified for the quality) is just a bullet I'll have to swallow. I got the upper and lower wishbone whiskers, S3 to CSR adaptation front wing mounts and CF mirrors. 

[S1Steve]

Starting to look more like a satellite with all of Bruce’s nice wiring. Radium tanks are also used on TransAm cars and alike. I like the billet look . Hopefully it will come back East soon, I’ll be down to inspect..😂😂

Edited February 27, 2022 by S1Steve

[Bruce K]

Fabulous work, Croc.  You are setting the standard for custom Caterhams.  I look forward to seeing images of the completed car.  Plus, my car is an S3, and yours is a CSR - I envy the extra space for feet and hips.  Toward that end, I am installing lowered floorboards and possibly a seat adjuster deletion this winter.  Still won't have your snazzy F1-style inboard suspension - I wonder how much better your top end will be because of that?

[Croc]

12 hours ago, S1Steve said:

Starting to look more like a satellite with all of Bruce’s nice wiring. 

 

The scary thing is that the wiring you see is mostly standard Caterham harness.  The new extra ECU wiring is not on there - its a separate engine harness plus the extra sensors on the wheels.

 

 

11 hours ago, Bruce K said:

 Still won't have your snazzy F1-style inboard suspension - I wonder how much better your top end will be because of that?

 

Suspension does not give you top end speed.  Engines, weight and aero give you top end.  Suspension gives you faster lap times and allows you to carry more speed through corners - think higher average speeds.  Top speed will be the same as anyone can be fast in a straight line - no skill needed other than to hold an accelerator pedal on the floor.  

 

[Rosteri]

Radium was an interesting find - their low profile swivels seem unique and can be a lifesaver in tight spots. I also like their flex fuel sensor setup, so far I have not come across anything similar either. Also the oil catch can is nice, but Croc do think about the blow-by fumes that will exit the filter.

 

I agree that the water tank looks fabulous, but it also appears very heavy compared to a plastic tank that does the job - out of curiosity, have you checked the weight? 

 

The pricing to me seems also reasonable, it is amazing that you can produce and still make a profit with so large CNC parts these days. 

 

[Croc]

46 minutes ago, Rosteri said:

...the oil catch can is nice, but Croc do think about the blow-by fumes that will exit the filter.

 

Oh yes that was my initial reaction. 

 

The standard Caterham catch tank for this car is this:

CATCH TANK PRE-DRILLED 1L - Caterham Parts

 

Its rubbish.  Tube shoved in the top and duct taped in.  Oil mists everywhere.  Looks terrible after first drive.  Tends to pressurize and blow the hose out too.

 

I am more sensitive on this topic because of the hassles I had on the current CSR260 until I sorted a proper catch tank with a good vent.  My current one is a  Mocal aluminum (aluminium for the sensible ones elsewhere) which I cut in half and re-welded to make it low rise.  It has a decent vent cap.  Still mists but not too bad.  Because the 2.3L Cosworth vents heavily plus it has no dipstick or or measuring device it is not unusual to have the tank overflow if I get the oil levels slightly wrong.  So I want to improve off my current solution.  

 

Fortunately the new set up has an oil level measure via the dry sump tank.  The Radium tank is more heavy than the Caterham supplied plastic tank.  But light weight is no good if it does not work.  The triangular Pace dry sump tank design is much better than my current Cosworth dry sump tower on top of an integrated bell housing tank.   So the chance of excess venting is much less.  I am skeptical about the breather on the side of the Radium catch tank.  It will not stay green like that for longer than a day.  But it is a standard fitting size and I have alternative breather vents from my previous research to go on there if needed.  It will be a trial once I get experience with the new engine and see how much oil it spits.    

 

46 minutes ago, Rosteri said:

I agree that the water tank looks fabulous, but it also appears very heavy compared to a plastic tank that does the job - out of curiosity, have you checked the weight? 

 

Not as heavier as you would think.  I had the same initial reaction as you.   The standard coolant bottle (from some POS mediocre Rover sedan) looks like this:

Expansion Bottle - Rover & Sigma (caterhamparts.co.uk)

 

Its fairy thick plastic.  Quite large compared to the Radium tank.  Awkward positioning as it interferes with the front suspension in standard location.  Relocating is a pain from an engine bay layout perspective.  Yellows as it ages.  

 

The new one is less than a quarter of a pound heavier (sorry have not checked metric), about 1/3rd of the size, and we can locate in a more convenient location for servicing and plumbing.  More durable than the standard one.  Will stay looking good longer.  I think the weight differential penalty is not as bad as you would expect simply because it is so much more compact than the standard Caterham plastic tank which is massively oversized for what a Caterham actually needs. 

 

If I really wanted to cut the pounds out of this project, I would swap out the Caterham "carbon" rear wings (which are carbon fiber veneer over fiberglass) for truly carbon fiber ones but thats really expensive.  Think US$2500 cost to save 15 pounds.  The standard carbon rear wings are REALLY heavy - heavier than the standard fiberglass ones.  I was astounded to discover this.  So I am really considering a change here.  Probably another 5 pounds saving if I did the front wings.  As this project has gone on so long we are having scope creep as options have become available that can save weight with some adaption.  Definitely there is a lot of weight saving consideration across the project.  For example, the new carbon fiber blank dash is nearly 3/4s of a pound lighter than the standard Caterham "carbon fiber" dash and is much better quality.   

 

So yes the Radium tank is heavier but the logic supporting our decision is sound given the compromises we were considering.  

[Rosteri]

Yeah, your logic makes sense - and having proper AN fittings for the water tank is a big plus as well. The tank has a pressure cap setup, so my initial thought was that you need to run it full of coolant +  an additional catch can with a pick-up at the bottom of the catch can, so that it sucks back any expelled coolant when the engine cools. 

 

The Caterham supplied tank works a bit differently with a large free air space above the coolant level for coolant expansion. Most European cars have this setup, I'm running a VW coolant tank. I don't like the looks either, so the Radium setup is interesting, but I don't want another catch can either. 

 

But as the Radium has a capacity of 0.7L, you might be able to run it still with an air cushion, so no coolant will come out at full temperature once you have the right level. Or just fill it up full with a purge outlet hose and then see where the level ends up once it has cooled down.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Rosteri

[Vovchandr]

3 hours ago, Croc said:

the Caterham "carbon" rear wings (which are carbon fiber veneer over fiberglass) for truly carbon fiber ones but thats really expensive.  Think US$2500 cost to save 15 pounds.  The standard carbon rear wings are REALLY heavy - heavier than the standard fiberglass ones.  I was astounded to discover this.

 

Touching this subject matter again, but you piqued my curiosity. If I recall my 2001 rear wings are normal carbon with no fiberglass, if I look on the inside I see the weave clearly. I can also compare them to the MOG backup set that I have. Is the fiberglass overlay for the rears part of the new change over as well or am I misunderstanding how mine are made and they are also an overlay?

 

Either way your discovery is quite disappointing from a consumer perspective. Justification for the price differential is weight + looks, but if it's just looks and is actually detrimental to the weight that leaves a lot to be desired and I'd think twice about such an order. 

[KnifeySpoony]

Not to derail but my carbon front wings (as well as aeroscreen) are certainly not carbon over fiberglass. They are real carbon and very light. My kit was delivered 2021. The wings had tillett labeling on them. My rear wings are standard fiberglass, so I can't comment there.

[CarlB]

You and Bruce are building an exceptional car! I have been thinking about making the cowl removable without drilling rivets, with the exception of the two on the outside of the body. I think I got lucky on the Classic carbon dash I got. It took some time to get it, but mine is nice quality. Sorry you have had problems after my good review. I have a disagreement with you about the Arch Switch protectors. I think they look good, but I am a R-53 MINI Cooper fan. Great job on the car.

[Croc]

6 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Touching this subject matter again, but you piqued my curiosity. If I recall my 2001 rear wings are normal carbon with no fiberglass, if I look on the inside I see the weave clearly. I can also compare them to the MOG backup set that I have. Is the fiberglass overlay for the rears part of the new change over as well or am I misunderstanding how mine are made and they are also an overlay?

 

My 2010 Caterham supplied wings are all carbon fiber - like you I can feel and see the weave on the underside.    The CatKong rear wings are fiberglass backed with carbon overlay - its smooth black plastic looking material underneath.  

 

For the rear wings, its been that way for at least 3 years.  Maybe longer - don't know?  Not sure about the fronts - since I have the CSR specific wings and not the ones that @KnifeySpoony has on his Caterham.    Tillet do some of the carbon fiber for Caterham and their stuff is high quality and all carbon fiber.  However, they are not the only carbon fiber supplier.  Rear wings come from somewhere else.  CSR front wings are unknown source.  

 

I am confused by your post - did you buy new rear wings or are you referring to your 2001 rear wings?  

 

 

[KnifeySpoony]

That's interesting about the rear wings. I can see about exposed carbon rear wings having a glass underlay for strength or something. But why would they offer a painted CF rear wing? Presumable the only reason to spec that is for weight saving (IE not cosmetics)...

[Bruce K]

12 hours ago, Croc said:

 

The scary thing is that the wiring you see is mostly standard Caterham harness.  The new extra ECU wiring is not on there - its a separate engine harness plus the extra sensors on the wheels.

 

 

 

Suspension does not give you top end speed.  Engines, weight and aero give you top end.  Suspension gives you faster lap times and allows you to carry more speed through corners - think higher average speeds.  Top speed will be the same as anyone can be fast in a straight line - no skill needed other than to hold an accelerator pedal on the floor.  

 

Au contraire, my friend.  Caterham's F1 experience taught them that inboard coilovers created less drag, and that flattened-profile front wishbones further enhance the effect.  Less drag should mean faster top end.  In my comment, I was inquiring as to whether these CSR enhancements actually improve the top speed.  I agree - a lead foot is essential to the final result.  Truly, the CSR is a brilliant car - so many pluses with only a small weight negative - 100% stiffer chassis, fully independent rear suspension, SV-style interior room, improved accommodations, wider rubber, better ride quality.  If the wait was not semi-eternal, I would have ordered one.