Electric Caterham

[Twerd68]

Two pieces of news: an ambitious (unrealistic?) 2023 target date and partnering agreement with Morgan (much more realist effort). 
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/electric-seven-due-2023-first-caterham-ev 

[Kitcat]

A 2011 salvage title Tesla Roadster(Lotus Elise with a 1,000 lb., battery) sold for $130K on BAT today. Maybe there is more hope for this electric Caterham concept than I realized. Even with a 1,000 battery pack, an all-elec se7en would still be a feathery 2,200 lbs, light by anyone's standards, apart from those of the members here.

[jimmylukeii]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:10 PM, noobie said:

Thanks, I've read that, but I'm looking for specific details about the caterham.

 

1 minute ago, Kitcat said:

A 2011 salvage title Tesla Roadster(Lotus Elise with a 1,000 lb., battery) sold for $130K on BAT today. Maybe there is more hope for this electric Caterham concept than I realized. Even with a 1,000 battery pack, an all-elec se7en would still be a feathery 2,200 lbs, light by anyone's standards, apart from those of the members here.

My guess is that the buyer of the Tesla Roadster is a collector versus someone that will use the car.  In other words, the auction price is not indicative of a healthy market yearning for an electric sports car.

 

Just my opinion, but I am a little sad at the prospect of lumpy V8s and screaming I4s disappearing.  

[Pokey]

Maybe (likely) disappearing from the new car market, but I believe the collector and competitive enthusiasts will be able to buy petrol for some time to come. 

 

There is a car show here in the Seattle area in June that usually has a few hundred cars and trucks of all kinds covering multiple city blocks.  Every year there is a handful of battery converted cars and trucks from back when doing so would have been truly novel.  Maybe after I'm long gone that show will feature electric vehicles with a handful of oddball petrol samples.  Heck, maybe the future will have someone converting an electric to petrol as a retro creative outlet.

[Twerd68]

I am conflicted on the topic. I loved my old v8s but sold them all to go electric. Now I eagerly await a truly great two-seater electric track/street car. Nothing would fit that bill better than an e-cat! The current technology challenge is keeping the battery cool when discharging at the higher rates of racing. The tech is getting closer and closer, however. I think we are talking years, not decades. Plus, I suspect that racing will be one of the last places we see gas hanging around. Motorcycle riders who have switched to electric love the relative quiet of electric (but don’t yet love the range limitations and charging limitations.)

[924s]

At another forum someone said they want light weight and throttle response, you won't get that with batteries the 7 will be another modern overweight car.  Look at the new Lotus coming soon, 2000 hp and 3700 lb, it needs 2000 hp to move. A 7 is very agile, changes direction like nothing else, electric 7's will be overweight, not agile.

 

[Davemk1]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:13 PM, 924s said:

At another forum someone said they want light weight and throttle response, you won't get that with batteries the 7 will be another modern overweight car.  Look at the new Lotus coming soon, 2000 hp and 3700 lb, it needs 2000 hp to move. A 7 is very agile, changes direction like nothing else, electric 7's will be overweight, not agile.

 

A sincere question.....how much do you think a Seven could weigh before it loses it's agility?

 

dave

 

 

[JeffersonRaley]

1 hour ago, Davemk1 said:

A sincere question.....how much do you think a Seven could weigh before it loses it's agility?

 

dave

 

 

Given how low the weight could be, I think the car could be super-entertaining even close to 2,0000 lbs.  It'll never be the same experience as our ICE Sevens, but I think it has every chance to be a lot of fun.  I might need to have both!

[924s]

1 hour ago, Davemk1 said:

A sincere question.....how much do you think a Seven could weigh before it loses it's agility?

 

dave

 

 

A quote from another forum  
 After a drive in the Caterham my old '88 911 felt unresponsive, heavy, and clumsy. This isn't a knock on the 911, it's just that the Caterham is so light and precise.  A 1988 911 is 2700 lb.    I have a super 7  clone after I drive it my 1988 Porsche 924S feels like a big heavy luxury car, it weighs 2600 lb. The super 7 is close to the specs of a 1953 Ferrari 500 F1 car, tube frame, 4 cyl, 2.0 lt. 180 hp, 540 kg, 1200 lb, 4 speed, Dedion rear end, they are said to be one of the best race cars in history, small, light, analog. It won the F1 championship in 1953, 1954, one year it won 14 out of 16 races, cool car. Value today $5 million.  The quickest 7's today are close to a F3 car performance for the street. Great idea: someone built a Ferrari 500 F1 clone, it sold for $70,000, that is  more then a 7 clone is worth.

[924s]

1 hour ago, Davemk1 said:

A sincere question.....how much do you think a Seven could weigh before it loses it's agility?

 

dave

 

 

I don't like electric cars, there is no sound and they are too heavy. there is one I do kind of like the VW ID R.  they got it down to one ton.  It is the quickest car in the world on the right track, like Goodwood it has the record, quicker then F1.   Just put a modified 7 body on this platform?

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by 924s

[924s]

14 minutes ago, 924s said:

I don't like electric cars, there is no sound and they are too heavy. there is one I do kind of like the VW ID R.  they got it down to one ton.  It is the quickest car in the world on the right track, like Goodwood it has the record, quicker then F1.   Just put a modified 7 body on this platform?

 

Chris Harris in VW ID R     

 

[Davemk1]

The max allowable weight for a Seven to feel like a Seven is an interesting question. Before I built my Westfield (1220 lbs) I owned a supercharged Lotus Elise (1900 lbs) and while compared to most anything else on the road the Elise felt light it feels heavy compared to my Seven....which of course it is. Both are seriously quick and fun but they are different.

 

What I wonder about is how light could an electric Seven be made. My Westfield has an S2000 engine and trans and they are not light and heavier than most 4 cylinder cars would have. On the other hand an electric motor would be much lighter than the Honda unit and it won't even need the trans. If one takes the weight loss of the engine and trans and put that weight into batteries what would the car end up weighing? I have no idea but I'm sure it would be far south of the ICE Elise.....which is an awesome car. And the torque and throttle response would make the ICE set up feel slow witted.

 

It's an interesting question and I look forward to seeing what Caterham comes up with. My wild-assed-guess would be that to get the needed range that it will weigh about 1400-1500 lbs and do 0-60 in about 3 seconds. Would it be as flickable as a 1250 lbs car? Nope. Would it be wicked fun? Yep....I think it would.

 

Time will tell.

 

dave

[924s]

2 hours ago, Davemk1 said:

The max allowable weight for a Seven to feel like a Seven is an interesting question. Before I built my Westfield (1220 lbs) I owned a supercharged Lotus Elise (1900 lbs) and while compared to most anything else on the road the Elise felt light it feels heavy compared to my Seven....which of course it is. Both are seriously quick and fun but they are different.

 

What I wonder about is how light could an electric Seven be made. My Westfield has an S2000 engine and trans and they are not light and heavier than most 4 cylinder cars would have. On the other hand an electric motor would be much lighter than the Honda unit and it won't even need the trans. If one takes the weight loss of the engine and trans and put that weight into batteries what would the car end up weighing? I have no idea but I'm sure it would be far south of the ICE Elise.....which is an awesome car. And the torque and throttle response would make the ICE set up feel slow witted.

 

It's an interesting question and I look forward to seeing what Caterham comes up with. My wild-assed-guess would be that to get the needed range that it will weigh about 1400-1500 lbs and do 0-60 in about 3 seconds. Would it be as flickable as a 1250 lbs car? Nope. Would it be wicked fun? Yep....I think it would.

 

Time will tell.

 

dave

The Lotus 7 series 1 was 1060 lb. since then the weight has crept up, some of the clones are getting heavier, one complaint was they are getting more like driving a regular car, losing some of the original experience, ( adding more luxury and extras for the consumer to sell more cars).  The VW ID R lasts 12 minutes at full throttle before a long recharge, recharging is a big issue (lack of sound is the other one), 20% of electric car users are switching back to ice, because of the inconvenience.  The 7 edge because of light weight was out braking and out cornering other cars if you add weight, batteries,  you lose that. There is more 7's being raced around the world then any other car, if they go electric you can't race them, the new VW ID R race car can only last 12 minutes at full throttle, then it needs a recharge, you could have 4 lap 12 minute races then 4?, 8? hour recharges, bring a bed have a nap. A 24 hour Le Mans or Daytona would take a week to complete.

Edited June 7, 2021 by 924s

[924s]

3 hours ago, Davemk1 said:

The max allowable weight for a Seven to feel like a Seven is an interesting question. Before I built my Westfield (1220 lbs) I owned a supercharged Lotus Elise (1900 lbs) and while compared to most anything else on the road the Elise felt light it feels heavy compared to my Seven....which of course it is. Both are seriously quick and fun but they are different.

 

What I wonder about is how light could an electric Seven be made. My Westfield has an S2000 engine and trans and they are not light and heavier than most 4 cylinder cars would have. On the other hand an electric motor would be much lighter than the Honda unit and it won't even need the trans. If one takes the weight loss of the engine and trans and put that weight into batteries what would the car end up weighing? I have no idea but I'm sure it would be far south of the ICE Elise.....which is an awesome car. And the torque and throttle response would make the ICE set up feel slow witted.

 

It's an interesting question and I look forward to seeing what Caterham comes up with. My wild-assed-guess would be that to get the needed range that it will weigh about 1400-1500 lbs and do 0-60 in about 3 seconds. Would it be as flickable as a 1250 lbs car? Nope. Would it be wicked fun? Yep....I think it would.

 

Time will tell.

 

dave

Electric can sure launch though, watch a VW Beetle set 1/4 mile record (no not tesla it weighs the same as an F150, horrible) a VAG product...https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/a32336885/electric-vw-beetle-drag-car/

[JohnCh]

There's been an electric Westfield in Barbados for years that's reasonably fast.  Nicknamed the MegaWatt, here is an 1/8 mile run in 6.462s seconds at 109mph.  I'd tell you to turn up the sound, but...

 

 

 

-John

[924s]

12 minutes ago, JohnCh said:

There's been an electric Westfield in Barbados for years that's reasonably fast.  Nicknamed the MegaWatt, here is an 1/8 mile run in 6.462s seconds at 109mph.  I'd tell you to turn up the sound, but...

 

 

 

-John

Electric race car see VW ID R can only run full throttle for 12 minutes on one charge , that is the end of track racing for sevens or anything, have to switch to drag racing. Then wait for hours while recharging. that does not work, stick with ice. ........   change batteries every 5 laps?  what a joke electric is.   All cars look the same now because of government regulations, soon they will all have the same electric power train, no difference then, boring.  and no sound track.

[coffee break]

A 2000 lbs 7? At least you could get the tires hot.

[Croc]

8 hours ago, coffee break said:

A 2000 lbs 7? 

 

Isn't that called a Stalker?  

[924s]

23 hours ago, JeffersonRaley said:

Given how low the weight could be, I think the car could be super-entertaining even close to 2,0000 lbs.  It'll never be the same experience as our ICE Sevens, but I think it has every chance to be a lot of fun.  I might need to have both!

An electric car with no batteries and a  gas powered car weigh about the same, the weight savings of no ice engine is offset with with the reinforcements of the car required to carry the weight of the batteries plus the electric motors, controllers etc. that come with electric power.

2008 tesla roadster weight of  batteries = 450 kg  or 992 lb  

A 1200 lb 7 becomes a 2200 lb 7.

Chapman's Lotus 7 had its debut at the 1957 Earl's Court Motor Show in London. They were priced at £1,036 including purchase tax but it cost only £536 in kit form as no purchase tax was required. It weighed only 725 lb (329 kg).

Fast and responsive, the Lotus 7 was one of Chapman's masterworks, an advanced machine that surpassed the earlier Lotus 6 as a vehicle that could perform well on the track and be driven legally on the road.

The current replica  7's are already moving away from the first small light 725 lb 7's. Is a 2000 lb 7 still a 7?

An electric 7 will weigh as much as three S1 7's.  call it 7 x 3?

Compared to an S1   7 the electric 7 will probably feel heavy, clumsy, with three times the weight you need bigger brakes, stronger suspension etc.  you lose agility.

 

 

[924s]

If you want to know the outcome just add 1000 lb to your 7 and see the results in worse performance. (don't do this it will break the car).  If you double the weight the acceleration time is twice as long, braking distances double, break away speed on corners is cut in half, unless you start upgrading tires and brakes.  Agility is cut in half.