Greetings and a Few Questions From a Wannabe Seven Driver

[Croc]

5 hours ago, rider said:

Thanks for the details. Wonder why the CSR flopped. Is it because Seven Purists didn't entertain a "friendly" version?

 

 

Essentially cost of production.  Its produced by Arch and not Caterham's normal chassis production line.  The complexity of the chassis requires that level of jig precision that an increased production line could not handle.  That prevented them from scaling up production numbers and so cost remained high.  

 

[Croc]

5 hours ago, rider said:

Actually, it is very reassuring to hear the word "reliable" to describe the 420!  

 

Sevens are reliable!  Mine are anyway as I go through them end to end and make sure they are sorted.  Yes they do have problems from time to time as the application is a performance car.  You do have to be on top of monitoring things and your regular maintenance checks.  Do that and all will be well. 

 

If I think of the various maintenance items on my various Caterhams over the last 15 years that required a bit of effort beyond the basics - oil, coolant, etc, then you have:

2004 Yellow Roadsport - clutch, fuel hose, coolant hoses, suspension bushes

2003 Red Roadsport - new shocks, clutch, fuel hose replacement, coolant hoses, suspension bushes, wheel bearings

2018 Silver 420R - new A frame (and a bucket of disinfectant to clean up the poo when it let go at 100mph on a fast sweeper at Croft Circuit)

2010 Silver CSR - new rear damper mount, clutch, battery, some alternator wiring, wheel bearings, change in oil catch tank solution, suspension bushes (x2), fuel pump, fuel pump seal (x2)

 

Given the use I give them, I consider that a fairly respectable list of items requiring some work beyond the normal maintenance.  

 

Build it right day 1 and it is going to work well out of the box.  

[Christopher smith]

6 hours ago, rider said:

 

I've been around the block, Mike! 

 

Thanks for the details. Wonder why the CSR flopped. Is it because Seven Purists didn't entertain a "friendly" version?

 

 

 

Thanks. Will add to my list of possible mods. Will evaluate how the stock performs out of the box before making any change.

 

 

 

This (highlighted by me) is one of the data points in my consideration. From now, I'm letting my brain make a decision as opposed to heart, unlike in the past! ICE will be gone in a few years; or, the kind of cars we enthusiasts want to buy would be changed dramatically. So, no time to experiment. A 911 or Spyder can possibly be driven till the last day of your driving life. At a recent PCA (Porsche Club of America) event, I saw a gentleman with his mother in a wheelchair. At the end of the event, I saw her on the front passenger seat of his 911 and he was loading up the folded wheel chair in the back! Kid you not! Didn't see how he executed the whole process. That was impressive! I wanna be able to drive my Sportscar at ripe old age even if I were walking with a cane or walker! 

 

 

 

 

Good to know; thanks. I'm still bit unclear about this unanswered question: does LHD (US-spec) car have exhaust on the passenger-side? Every picture I've seen, the exhaust is on the driver-side, whether LHD or RHD.

 

 

 

Thanks Christopher. Is there a commercially available product? Though it is now confirmed 420 has insulation for firewall and tranny tunnel, I still wanna explore options to possibly increase the insulation. Of course, I'll evaluate the stock, as-is spec before touching it.

 

 

We used to sell 1000s of tons of the stuff for all sorts of applications. Buying small quantities for home use gets tricky but I see Aircraft Spruce or suppliers for surfboard repair have some. You can hand stir it into almost any paint composition for brush on consistency. As a chemist, I would tend to go for 2 part epoxy liquids  ( like West Systems)as a base and color coat with a spray can a few days after curing. Probably more trouble than most 7 guys would try.

[11Budlite]

6 hours ago, rider said:

 

Good to know; thanks. I'm still bit unclear about this unanswered question: does LHD (US-spec) car have exhaust on the passenger-side? Every picture I've seen, the exhaust is on the driver-side, whether LHD or RHD.

 

 

 

 

Welcome Henry, I don't think this question has been addressed. All Duratec and Sigma powered Caterhams (270/310/360/420/620) have the exhaust on the passenger side on LHD cars. Earlier Zetec and Kent Crossflow cars had the exhaust on the drivers side on LHD cars. I've owned a Zetec powered Birkin and presently have a Sigma powered Caterham 310 and prefer having the exhaust on the passenger side just for the reduction in noise. 

 

No heat issues with my car. The carpet on the tunnel with insulation on the inside, combined with the insulation on the forward footwell, does a good job of keeping the heat out.

 

Your consideration of a 420 model is a good choice. When I ordered my 310, it was considered by many to be the best all-around Caterham model as a dual-purpose machine. So far I've only used mine on track and it's been almost perfect for my needs and skill level. The only real time I've wanted a little more grunt was on the back straight at Watkins Glen where I was running out of steam long before the inner loop. All the other tracks I've been to it's been ton of fun with very low usage of consumables (gas/brakes/tires). If I had known how much I was going to enjoy track days, I would have stepped up and ordered a 360 or 420.  

 

 

[rider]

16 hours ago, Croc said:

 

 

Essentially cost of production.  Its produced by Arch and not Caterham's normal chassis production line.  The complexity of the chassis requires that level of jig precision that an increased production line could not handle.  That prevented them from scaling up production numbers and so cost remained high.  

 

 

Interesting; thanks.

 

 

16 hours ago, Croc said:

 

Sevens are reliable!  Mine are anyway as I go through them end to end and make sure they are sorted.  Yes they do have problems from time to time as the application is a performance car.  You do have to be on top of monitoring things and your regular maintenance checks.  Do that and all will be well. 

................

Build it right day 1 and it is going to work well out of the box.  

 

This is great; thanks, Mike. You just touched on my only other major issue of discussion which I alluded to Jim (kayentaskier). I've got a few questions, thoughts and mitigation options. Will make another thread to ask about those.

 

15 hours ago, Christopher smith said:

......... As a chemist, I would tend to go for 2 part epoxy liquids  ........... Probably more trouble than most 7 guys would try.

 

Thanks; will look it up. 

 

15 hours ago, 11Budlite said:

 

.........All Duratec and Sigma powered Caterhams (270/310/360/420/620) have the exhaust on the passenger side on LHD cars. ..........

 

No heat issues with my car. The carpet on the tunnel with insulation on the inside, combined with the insulation on the forward footwell, does a good job of keeping the heat out.

 

.............If I had known how much I was going to enjoy track days, I would have stepped up and ordered a 360 or 420.  

 

 

 

Thanks, Bruce. So, with the exhaust being on the right, it is now incumbent on the driver to make sure the passenger gets in and out without burning the leg!! And, make sure she wears an earplug! And, good to know heat insulation helps which 420 has out of the box. That's a relief! 

 

Yeah, you can quickly outgrow and get acclimated with the power levels if you're tracking...! For the street, my driving use cases, 420 seems right as you and others conclude. 

 

 

 

[rider]

I wanna thank every one of you for the feedback, suggestions and great level of details. Highly appreciate it. This forum is awesome! This is a close-knit community as expected considering the nature of Seven, it's hardest of hardcore status and the commitment it takes to have one! 

 

I'm glad to know my major concern of cabin heat is put to rest. It's a step closer than before. I'm gonna work on the next step in the process....! 

 

cheers.

 

[IamScotticus]

@rider

Will you build the car or have it assembled?

[Vovchandr]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:49 AM, Christopher smith said:

Good to know; thanks. I'm still bit unclear about this unanswered question: does LHD (US-spec) car have exhaust on the passenger-side? Every picture I've seen, the exhaust is on the driver-side, whether LHD or RHD.

 

Without getting into technical naming weeds, Zetecs are left hand exhaust and Duratecs are right hand exhaust. Duratec became standard in early 2000's and has been primary motor since. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Taber10]

1 hour ago, Vovchandr said:

 

.... Zetecs are left hand exhaust and Duratecs are right hand exhaust. Duratec became standard in early 2000's....

Does that mean I should get my 2007 Caterham with its Zetec SVT upgraded to the "standard" Duratec and NOT burn my leg on the Driver's side exhaust ever again?

[rider]

10 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

@rider

Will you build the car or have it assembled?

 

Oh, hell no!!  I can't even be trusted to assemble an IKEA furniture!! If you thought never met a klutz, mechanically, you just have! I'll be asking for suggestions on a dealer, final tranny builder, etc., as I go through my process.

 

 

10 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Without getting into technical naming weeds, Zetecs are left hand exhaust and Duratecs are right hand exhaust. Duratec became standard in early 2000's and has been primary motor since. 

 

Thanks. I'm just a bit worried that I need to make sure my passenger doesn't get a burn! Had it been on the driver-side, I can be mindful at all times. It should become part of my ingress/egress routine to my passenger.

 

 

 

 

[KnifeySpoony]

If you plan on doing literally no wrenching on the car, I'd advise having a plan on who will service/repair/troubleshoot/look over the car once you own it. These cars need more care and feeding than a "normal" car.

[Vovchandr]

19 hours ago, Taber10 said:

Does that mean I should get my 2007 Caterham with its Zetec SVT upgraded to the "standard" Duratec and NOT burn my leg on the Driver's side exhaust ever again?

 

Getting branded on your leg by a 7 like a piece of cattle is a right of passage for either you or your passengers.

 

Personally I like having the exhaust on drivers side for the noise. 

 

8 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said:

If you plan on doing literally no wrenching on the car, I'd advise having a plan on who will service/repair/troubleshoot/look over the car once you own it. These cars need more care and feeding than a "normal" car.

 

Aint that the truth

[rider]

On 6/11/2023 at 5:01 AM, Croc said:

.............

2018 Silver 420R - new A frame (and a bucket of disinfectant to clean up the poo when it let go at 100mph on a fast sweeper at Croft Circuit)

........... 

 

@Croc: Mike, didn't think of this to ask earlier: did the A Frame fail due to incident on the track or the track incident was caused by the failure of A Frame?

 

 

22 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said:

If you plan on doing literally no wrenching on the car, I'd advise having a plan on who will service/repair/troubleshoot/look over the car once you own it. These cars need more care and feeding than a "normal" car.

 

@KnifeySpoony: This is a question I'm really struggling with! Mechanically, I'm a klutz; I'm a software guy! Having said that, I can learn a bit. You guys are awesome and resourceful; so, I can rely on the collective wisdom of this great forum. Having said that, my plan is to buy a couple of sets of the Shop Manuals, hand a set to a local indie Porsche shop who will do all the maintenance. I have a bunch of other questions and thoughts on this issue; will make another thread.

 

@Vovchandr: Vlad, I'm currently reading through your thread ("New Guy Here ....."); read up to page 6. Frankly, I'm shocked by what I read thus far! I don't have the skill set to deal with the problems you have endured. I might understand more after finishing the thread; are the problems due to lack of close maintenance by previous owners? At 17 years of age, the components seemed beyond beat up. The coolant hoses for example, looked terrible. I suspect each of those components may have specific life span and replacement schedule. For Seven, I would halve the life expectancy of a component as specified by the Factory! Nonetheless, I take my hat off for your patience and skills! 

 

 

 

 

[JohnCh]

57 minutes ago, rider said:

This is a question I'm really struggling with! Mechanically, I'm a klutz; I'm a software guy! Having said that, I can learn a bit.

 

I think the key question is are you interested in learning?  These cars are pretty simple to work on.  Yes, some aspects are challenging, but as long as you have space, are willing to invest in tools, ask questions, and when necessary are comfortable swearing up a storm to coerce the car into compliance, you'll find most things are doable.  

 

And ignore Vlad's car.  Some believe it's cursed (hmm... CURSED7 fits on a license plate, but that's a different thread.)  Rumor has it a klutzy software guy was the previous owner   If you are building from new, you will miss out on the joys of correcting a previous owner's mistakes and shortcuts. 

 

-John

[Croc]

6 hours ago, rider said:

 

@Croc: Mike, didn't think of this to ask earlier: did the A Frame fail due to incident on the track or the track incident was caused by the failure of A Frame?

 

 

A frame went snap (at the 3 yo mark) and then I went for a very big ride.  Thats how I learned A frames are to be considered a consumable on Caterhams, especially those that are doing a lot of track work.  The way they operate to flex with the suspension makes them very susceptible to ail through metal fatigue, although mine likely had a small rock impact it at some point.  A road car may go through its entire life without an issue but some of the frequent Caterham racers in the UK go through one or more A frames every year.  Its an annual inspection item at the very least.  

 

The write up is here:

 

Really this just reinforces the point, a Caterham is a a lightweight high performance car and not a Toyota Corolla.  It requires a little more attention to ensure it is tip top.   Regular checks of it are all thats required although some anticipation of parts failure points will serve you well.  After 6 of these cars I am still learning things.  

[KnifeySpoony]

If you're a biker, I assume you do basic motorcycle maintenance? If you do oil changes/chain maintenance/etc, you can probably maintain a 7 on your own with minimal new tools needed.

[rider]

22 hours ago, JohnCh said:

 

I think the key question is are you interested in learning?  ......... but as long as you have space, are willing to invest in tools, ask questions, and when necessary are comfortable swearing up a storm to coerce the car into compliance, you'll find most things are doable.  

 

...........Rumor has it a klutzy software guy was the previous owner   If you are building from new, you will miss out on the joys of correcting a previous owner's mistakes and shortcuts. 

 

-John

 

Learning a skill set is not a problem. As a Software Architect, I'm always learning; new tools, processes, methodologies, etc. I'm reading and training constantly. Every project is different. So, I'm conditioned to learning constantly. And, I'm self-taught. It comes down to time. I live in an apartment building; so, space is limited. But, underground parking spot could be used for minor issues. Yeah, avoid klutzy software guys to buy from.....! 

 

As I type this response, a crazy idea just popped in! I've just been exchanging private messages with @kayentaskier/Jim regarding the dealer. Let me analyze my thought further, then share for feedback. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Croc said:

 

A frame went snap (at the 3 yo mark) and then I went for a very big ride.  Thats how I learned A frames are to be considered a consumable on Caterhams, especially those that are doing a lot of track work. ............

 

Really this just reinforces the point, a Caterham is a a lightweight high performance car ............After 6 of these cars I am still learning things.  

 

Wow! Must have been one hell of a shock at high speed!! I don't think anyone would have expected a 3-year old car would have such a failure. Might be, the parts are built for light weight and just to meet the specs, not for longevity. Yes, that's why it is imperative to check and replace ahead of suggested life span. 

 

Will read through that thread; thanks for sharing.

 

 

8 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said:

If you're a biker, I assume you do basic motorcycle maintenance? If you do oil changes/chain maintenance/etc, you can probably maintain a 7 on your own with minimal new tools needed.

 

Yes, some bikers work on their rides; but, not this guy....! Though I have the chain cleaner and lube, I usually let the tech do that during annual service. My bike, F4, is extremely sensitive to chain tension (else, the Rear Hub will detonate!!), among a bunch of other stuff! It is a two-wheel equivalent of Seven!! No exaggeration! 

 

 

[Vovchandr]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:22 AM, JohnCh said:

And ignore Vlad's car.  Some believe it's cursed (hmm... CURSED7 fits on a license plate, but that's a different thread.)  Rumor has it a klutzy software guy was the previous owner   If you are building from new, you will miss out on the joys of correcting a previous owner's mistakes and shortcuts. 

 

 

I'm glad to see me and my car hold a special place in the Seven folklore. 

[JohnCh]

17 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

I'm glad to see me and my car hold a special place in the Seven folklore. 

 

You deserve an award for your perseverance.  

[slowdude]

@rider. Glad there is another biker on here.

 

The checks you do before each ride (chain, tires, charging etc), will still have to be done on the caterham.

 

Regarding the work and simplicity- I'm an excel nerd and I've been able to do a lot of work with with a $100 craftsman tool set and some NAPA jack stands. You'd be surprised how easy it is. As many have said, you'll have to learn quickly how to adjust things. I keep a spare tool kit and fluids in my car just in case.

 

I figure each winter, something will come up which needs addressing, so plan to do certain items as they come up. These are very similar to an older motorcycle in that they need constant loving, otherwise they become a bit petulant.

 

Thankfully, parts and consumables are cheap. Full brakes (calipers pads rotors) ran me $700 or so and a few weekends of slow going. It's certainly doable.