New guy. Here is my Cat

[Vovchandr]

Current dump

 

 

Heater valve is shot

 

 

Replaced heater valve with hard unions for now

 

 

Oil cap. No obvious residues 

 

That brown at the bottom is more dirt than anything

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

 

Hose flush

 

 

Nothing really happens until 6:15. Volume expands a lot while we are still below 80 degrees. This is typical for me every time I've been doing this. Not certain if this is normal. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Croc]

16 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

 

2) Corrosion found in Heater valve. Completely removed and hard connected right now to partition it out. New one is on order. 

3) Everything is flushed with hose until clear.

 

Results:

1) Ran it until hot with extra tall funnel without pressure. Things stayed relatively clear and then started to expand greatly towards 80 degrees and overflowed again. Likely a normal result. Shut it down and closed cap off (topped to the max)

2) Drove it to work just a few miles. Seemed to run alright. Went to restart in the parking lot and was struggling to start. Pulled around the building and temp climbed past 80 into hot territory and spilled out passed cap when shut down. Likely overfilled and also expected?

 

Pending:

More driving to see get the air to collect in expansion tank and see if color of water changes. 

 

 

I think this is encouraging.  Given you had so much sediment the other day in the video, I suspect you have corrosion elsewhere - block and water pump.  That fact you got the liquid clear is an achievement.  Lets see what happens after some running as to whether it stays clear.  If not then more work to come.  

 

You may have overfilled it.  It could also still have air in the system needing bleeding.   More testing to know.  

 

 

[ashyers]

The top T fitting may be found at any parts store. They are used to back flush cooling systems. You could by the "kit" and use it to flush the cooling system with your hose.

 

Did you grab a hose and check to see if the system was pressurized when you arrived at work? For every 1 psi of pressure in the system you kick up the boiling point of the water ~3F. If your system is running at ambient pressure you're not going to have much margin before it boils over.

 

Don't put distilled water in the cooling system w/o 40% antifreeze or some water wetter.

[ashyers]

Not to add to your plate, but one thing just came to mind, if you have changed the baseline TPS setting that will alter the timing/fueling. There's a possibility the timing is retarded a bunch causing high coolant temps at idle.

 

Do your header tubes appear to be any hotter than normal? You can make 'em glow red if the timing is retarded and this will also push the temps around the exhaust valve through the roof possibly leading to cooling issues at idle.

 

I'd suggest you plug in the laptop and see where your timing is at.

 

EDIT:

Just watched your videos:

Were the ones posted most recently both w/o a T-stat?

 

Comments:

Running it to "temp" w/o a Tstat doesn't really accomplish much. Any bleeding will happen cold with some healthy blips since there's no T-stat to get in the way of burping the system.

Running the car w/o a Tstat is not a great idea. Local pressure in the head/block will be low and encourage boiling. If the Tstat operates OK in boiling water w/o sticking put it back in.

Your temp gauge didn't look hot to me, but it's likely high enough to boil the straight water you're running if the system does not pressurize leading the system temp to spike, especially after a heat soak situation like you created.

Edited June 7, 2021 by ashyers
additional info

[Vovchandr]

3 hours ago, ashyers said:

The top T fitting may be found at any parts store. They are used to back flush cooling systems. You could by the "kit" and use it to flush the cooling system with your hose.

 

Did you grab a hose and check to see if the system was pressurized when you arrived at work? For every 1 psi of pressure in the system you kick up the boiling point of the water ~3F. If your system is running at ambient pressure you're not going to have much margin before it boils over.

 

Don't put distilled water in the cooling system w/o 40% antifreeze or some water wetter.

 

Good call on the T fitting in the flush kits. Didn't realize that. Will pick that up!

 

I did not grab a hose. You mean just squeeze the upper radiator hose?

 

Noted on distilled water without antifreeze or wetter. May I ask why?

3 hours ago, ashyers said:

Not to add to your plate, but one thing just came to mind, if you have changed the baseline TPS setting that will alter the timing/fueling. There's a possibility the timing is retarded a bunch causing high coolant temps at idle.

 

Yes TPS/idle is still messed with. TPS removed and reinstalled now reads slightly less and ITB's have been open to eliminate IAC.

 

 If anything I idle higher (too high) as of right now. 

 

2 hours ago, ashyers said:

Do your header tubes appear to be any hotter than normal? You can make 'em glow red if the timing is retarded and this will also push the temps around the exhaust valve through the roof possibly leading to cooling issues at idle.

 

Heater tubes are all wrapped now. It will be impossible to tell by eye what's happening with them now. 

 

2 hours ago, ashyers said:

I'd suggest you plug in the laptop and see where your timing is at.

 

Laptop would tell me timing? I'll poke around. 

2 hours ago, ashyers said:

Were the ones posted most recently both w/o a T-stat?

All the recent videos are without T-Stat. Removed it first thing today. 

 

3 hours ago, ashyers said:

Comments:

Running it to "temp" w/o a Tstat doesn't really accomplish much. Any bleeding will happen cold with some healthy blips since there's no T-stat to get in the way of burping the system.

Running the car w/o a Tstat is not a great idea. Local pressure in the head/block will be low and encourage boiling. If the Tstat operates OK in boiling water w/o sticking put it back in.

Your temp gauge didn't look hot to me, but it's likely high enough to boil the straight water you're running if the system does not pressurize leading the system temp to spike, especially after a heat soak situation like you created.

 

Makes sense. I'll retest the Tstat and put it back in. I think I should have the original OEM around as well I can test.

 

Temp gauge started to run hotter than 80 to around 100 at the time the spilling (boiling?) effect happened when park. This would make sense too. 

 

Thanks!

[CarlB]

You should add some corrosion inhibitor to the water. Lots of companies that sell to racers have it. If the funnel was half full and you got it to overflow you have a air pocket. I bet if you let it over flow in a short amount of time the water level will drop.

[Vovchandr]

14 minutes ago, CarlB said:

You should add some corrosion inhibitor to the water. Lots of companies that sell to racers have it. If the funnel was half full and you got it to overflow you have a air pocket. I bet if you let it over flow in a short amount of time the water level will drop.

 

Thanks. I'll look into this too. Using water while troubleshooting, won't use it once its all sorted out.

 

The funnel always drastically creeps up as I get closer to operating temp and then either settles lower while running or definitely drastically drops in level once shut off. To the point where I have to add more. 

[CarlB]

I just looked at the video of the big funnel. You have a air pocket. All that expansion is air heating up or water boiling. I never had any trouble getting my Zetec cooling system full. Is the small hose that connects above the thermostat housing to the coolant tank open. That is what should blead the air.  

[Vovchandr]

5 minutes ago, CarlB said:

I just looked at the video of the big funnel. You have a air pocket. All that expansion is air heating up or water boiling. I never had any trouble getting my Zetec cooling system full. Is the small hose that connects above the thermostat housing to the coolant tank open. That is what should blead the air.  

 

When I took everything apart to take Tstat out yesterday I blew through that hose. It did give mild restriction at first strangely (as I didn't find any contamination or anything) but afterwards it was free flowing. I can check again and double check the Tstat housing for obstruction, since I have to put Tstat back in anyway. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Vovchandr

[CarlB]

I understand how frustrating this can be. I have been going through similar frustrations with my alternator mount.  You might try disconnecting the heater completely. That would eliminate that possibility. The other thing I would do is look at the plugs and see if you see any signs of water.  A better test would be a cold compression test. If you have a leak down gauge, just pressurize the cylinders when the engine is cold. Then look for bubbles in the coolant. 

[CarlB]

There is a passage inside the housing above where the thermostat goes. It is a bleed hole around the thermostat and should let the air out. 

[Vovchandr]

9 minutes ago, CarlB said:

I understand how frustrating this can be. I have been going through similar frustrations with my alternator mount.  You might try disconnecting the heater completely. That would eliminate that possibility. The other thing I would do is look at the plugs and see if you see any signs of water.  A better test would be a cold compression test. If you have a leak down gauge, just pressurize the cylinders when the engine is cold. Then look for bubbles in the coolant. 

 

It's all part of the adventure. I wasn't tinkering with it or constantly worried about the cycle fenders flying off I feel like it would take away from the experience...

 

However lines get crossed for me when I get stranded or car accelerates against my wishes, which is why I have such a high priority for these two issues, especially considering the two seem to be somehow related. One seems to cause the other, still not certain in which order. @ashyers theory isn't crazy where my tune/timing is off at idle, its causing heat issues which in turn cause accelerating issues etc. As I've already discovered my 2 throttle cable housings have failed at a point right above the exhaust. 

 

I might disconnect the heater entirely as part of troubleshooting. Not a bad idea! 

 

Cold compression and leakdown tests can be done next time I drive it to the shop (30 miles away), still in local drive troubleshooting stage right now. 

 

I'll look at plugs too. Also pending setting up the wideband to keep an eye on that. Have to swap mufflers for that, which is likely going to turn into another project. 

[CarlB]

I absolutely agree timing or very lean idle mixture could cause this. either issue will cause the headers to glow red. Problems are always more complicated when it is a combination of things.

[Vovchandr]

11 hours ago, CarlB said:

I absolutely agree timing or very lean idle mixture could cause this. either issue will cause the headers to glow red. Problems are always more complicated when it is a combination of things.

 

Noted.

 

Today after work I've

 

1) installed the heater T bleeder fitting and bypassed the heater. I'll play with the loop to get it to sit lower. 

 

 

 

2) tested the Thermostat. Strangely didn't appear to open at boiling. Only opened with heat gun. Tested with my OEM which I believe did. I'll double check tomorrow. 

 

 

3) Due to stuck downstream o2 bung. Took off the stock exhaust. While I'm at it I'm installing OEM upstream o2 sensor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Vovchandr

[coffee break]

That T-stat sounds suspect. They are a low budget item and you should have a choice of operating temperatures.

[Vovchandr]

28 minutes ago, coffee break said:

That T-stat sounds suspect. They are a low budget item and you should have a choice of operating temperatures.

 

I confirmed this morning they start to open under boiling water. Certainly the original does. That's the one I put back in 

[Croc]

Yes Vlad but don't you want it opening before it boils?   At what temp does it open and does that correspond to the temp you need?   I thought zetecs needed an 80-something deg F tStat

[Vovchandr]

It appears 160 wheels have a different lug pattern. For those wondering about CC spacers

 

I'm look more into TStats for Zetecs in meantime. 

 

Plug experts. These look lean?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Vovchandr

[Pokey]

IMHO, short of dripping wet I don't find plug appearance to be a great way to judge fuel/air for 4 stroke motors.  Having said that, if those plugs came out of a 2 stroke I would say yes, lean.