sf4018 Posted March 25 Posted March 25 18 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said: Tell me about the sizes on the R7s and slicks Type Manufacturer Model Comp. Front Wheel Size Front Part # Rear Wheel Size Rear Part Number DOT Avon ZZR A64 13x6 185/55R13 13x8 215/55R13 ZZR DOT Hoosier R7 R7 13x6 P185/60ZR13 13x8 P225/45ZR13 Slick Hoosier F2000 R35B 13x6 20.5x7.0R13 13x8 22.5x8.0R13 Some notes on suspension... The f/r ride height is currently tuned for the ZZRs. If I put on the F2000 I'll have to raise the front by 9mm to maintain the rake, which would not be too hard to do at the track. For the R7s though it's a real problem, I'd have to lower the front by 30mm, I'm not even sure that's possible at this point I haven't tried, but that's a huge change. Changing the rear ride height at the track would be a major pain. I already have the tires and wheels for the R7 so I'm committed for now to running them, but a better combination will be 13x6 fronts (same R7 tire) but the taller wheel size on the rear (15x8). This combo will minimize suspension setup change to the ZZR. I had a short look around to see if there are wheel sizes of the same style for 13x6 and 15x8 that would fit but I couldn't find any. I'll dig deeper later this year.
KnifeySpoony Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Thank you. Yeah the ride height/gearing consequences are a concern for me as well. Geometry wise, I'm ok raising my front (currently, my front is quite low, with LCA parallel to ground). Raising the rear is ok too but that would mean a smaller tire and shorter gearing. I'm right at the top of 4th on the longest straights on my 2 home tracks so I'd really prefer not to have to go to 5th (nitpicking I know). Why is rear ride height change an issue for you? Seems just as easy as the front. I'm as low as I can go on my spring perches on rear (actually I've removed the locking perch in able to go as low as I am currently), so any larger diameter tire in rear will require raising the front. I have also considered going to a 15" setup to run A7s in 205/225 but the diameters are quite a bit off. Would require new wingstays and front wings as well. Also I drive my car to the track, so driving on slicks is kinda sketchy. I'm severely grieving the loss of the ZZR in our sizes...
sf4018 Posted March 25 Posted March 25 2 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said: Thank you. Yeah the ride height/gearing consequences are a concern for me as well. Geometry wise, I'm ok raising my front (currently, my front is quite low, with LCA parallel to ground). Raising the rear is ok too but that would mean a smaller tire and shorter gearing. I'm right at the top of 4th on the longest straights on my 2 home tracks so I'd really prefer not to have to go to 5th (nitpicking I know). Why is rear ride height change an issue for you? Seems just as easy as the front. I'm as low as I can go on my spring perches on rear (actually I've removed the locking perch in able to go as low as I am currently), so any larger diameter tire in rear will require raising the front. I have also considered going to a 15" setup to run A7s in 205/225 but the diameters are quite a bit off. Would require new wingstays and front wings as well. Also I drive my car to the track, so driving on slicks is kinda sketchy. I'm severely grieving the loss of the ZZR in our sizes... The front suspension is easy access, just jack up one side, make the adjustment and repeat for the other side. The rear suspension can only be accessed from underneath. I don't have the trailer space to put in a hydraulic lift so putting it on jack stands is the only option, which is time consuming, especially if I have to repeat a few times. Maybe at the end of the day but then I'm eating into beer time
sf4018 Posted March 29 Posted March 29 (edited) On 3/25/2025 at 11:08 AM, KnifeySpoony said: Thank you. Yeah the ride height/gearing consequences are a concern for me as well. Geometry wise, I'm ok raising my front (currently, my front is quite low, with LCA parallel to ground). Raising the rear is ok too but that would mean a smaller tire and shorter gearing. I'm right at the top of 4th on the longest straights on my 2 home tracks so I'd really prefer not to have to go to 5th (nitpicking I know). Why is rear ride height change an issue for you? Seems just as easy as the front. I'm as low as I can go on my spring perches on rear (actually I've removed the locking perch in able to go as low as I am currently), so any larger diameter tire in rear will require raising the front. I have also considered going to a 15" setup to run A7s in 205/225 but the diameters are quite a bit off. Would require new wingstays and front wings as well. Also I drive my car to the track, so driving on slicks is kinda sketchy. I'm severely grieving the loss of the ZZR in our sizes... What are the hot/cold pressures for the R7? I’ve never run them before. The spec sheet has these pressures but they seem high. Edited March 29 by sf4018
KnifeySpoony Posted March 30 Posted March 30 No idea, but I would run what you usually run and see how they do. Maybe a couple extra PSI given their warning about liking higher pressures.
Xhilr8n Posted June 1 Posted June 1 Good discussion, but my track days are over. Had a blast for over 100 track days in the Elise. But the new 360R will be astreet machine for the foreseeable future. The car just came to our garage with the original Avons, stickers still on them. Four years old so about time to replace and I learn that it is not like fitting tires to the Elise, or at least how it was when I needed tires for her. I expect to keep the stock 15” wheels. What are people using nowadays for pure street, as the Avons on her now would do if fresh? It’s time to replace the nice OEM on the Elise as well. We ran Hoosiers for years but she’s street only for now too.
pethier Posted June 1 Posted June 1 5 minutes ago, Xhilr8n said: Good discussion, but my track days are over. Had a blast for over 100 track days in the Elise. But the new 360R will be a street machine for the foreseeable future. The car just came to our garage with the original Avons, stickers still on them. Four years old so about time to replace and I learn that it is not like fitting tires to the Elise, or at least how it was when I needed tires for her. I expect to keep the stock 15” wheels. What are people using nowadays for pure street, as the Avons on her now would do if fresh? It’s time to replace the nice OEM on the Elise as well. We ran Hoosiers for years but she’s street only for now too. Four years old sounds to me OK for the road. I have run Yokohama A052 tires on both Elise and Seven for both street and autocross. For *light* sports cars, I can't think of a better tire. I did NOT put the Yokos on my Cayman because it is a porker at just over 3000 pounds and has McPherson struts all around. I burned up a set of Bridgestone RE71RS tires on that lump in two years, and have a fresh set of the same tires in my shop ready to bolt onto the Cayman for use until I get my Seven back from its engine swap. I'm taking the Cayman to the Porsche Parade in OK and considering driving it there on the Bridgestones.
CBuff Posted June 1 Posted June 1 I think 4 years new avons are fine for the street. The new kits are delivered with Toyo r888rs. Slightly taller sidewalls. But I am more versed in the 13” options then the 15” I run 13” wheels otherwise I would take those avons. If you’re hell bent on replacing them you could get a buyer here since they don’t make them anymore.
Daniel Escobar Posted June 23 Posted June 23 (edited) Wanted to give my .02 I have tried Nankang AR1 and ZZR Extreme Nankangs in 185/60/13 - 205/60/13 ZZR in 185/55/13 - 215/55/13 The ZZR are on a league of their own in every aspect, I managed almost 3 seconds a lap over the AR1s in a slow technical track (1.6 miles) The AR1s come up to temp quick but fade after a 2-3 laps, while the ZZR maintain more consistent pace. On my Elise, I tried back to back R888R and AR1s and found the AR1 superior, I think the Toyo is a very old compound that is not up to date to the modern tires. I have not tired A64 compound on ZZR, but since the availability is kind of hit and miss, decided to try the Kumho on the bigger sizes 215/50/13 and 235/45/13. I have a track outing this Wednesday and will report back. I'm also testing new suspension (Quantum one zero) ditching my old R420 race spec dampers, so won't be apples to apples. Edited June 23 by Daniel Escobar
KnifeySpoony Posted June 23 Posted June 23 Looking forward to your AR1 report - I figure I will switch to these after my ZZR supply is used up (I have sets of A24, A64, and extreme). Definitely curious to hear about differences between running the 205 vs 235. Also surprised to hear they overheat within a few laps on such a light car. I figured the opposite would be the case (ie hard to get heat into).
Croc Posted June 23 Posted June 23 I didn't think much of the Nankang AR1. My track replacement for both the ZZR and the Hoosiers (now that Cooper Tires have changed the compounds and sizings) is to go Pirelli P-Zero for 13 inch wheels. If I need a tread (for a specific track day operator) then I have them hand grooved in a style similar to the ZZR - its easy to copy. Very close to the ZZR and maybe a fraction behind the old pre-Cooper Tires Hoosier R7 version. Downside - they are not cheap! I believe these are used for Formula 3 in Europe. For road I will stick with R888 for now in 13s. Still experimenting with my UK Caterham.
Daniel Escobar Posted June 23 Posted June 23 4 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said: Looking forward to your AR1 report - I figure I will switch to these after my ZZR supply is used up (I have sets of A24, A64, and extreme). Definitely curious to hear about differences between running the 205 vs 235. Also surprised to hear they overheat within a few laps on such a light car. I figured the opposite would be the case (ie hard to get heat into). Im trying the Kumho v70A this time. I already tried AR1s, and were "OK"... better than r888 in my opinion, and cheaper.
Daniel Escobar Posted June 23 Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Croc said: I didn't think much of the Nankang AR1. My track replacement for both the ZZR and the Hoosiers (now that Cooper Tires have changed the compounds and sizings) is to go Pirelli P-Zero for 13 inch wheels. If I need a tread (for a specific track day operator) then I have them hand grooved in a style similar to the ZZR - its easy to copy. Very close to the ZZR and maybe a fraction behind the old pre-Cooper Tires Hoosier R7 version. Downside - they are not cheap! I believe these are used for Formula 3 in Europe. For road I will stick with R888 for now in 13s. Still experimenting with my UK Caterham. My local trackday wont allow slicks, so need to stick to road tires. how much quicker are these vs ZZR Extreme?
KnifeySpoony Posted June 23 Posted June 23 30 minutes ago, Daniel Escobar said: Im trying the Kumho v70A this time. I already tried AR1s, and were "OK"... better than r888 in my opinion, and cheaper. Oh woops, missed that. I have never heard of those tires - looks like they need to be ordered from Europe in 13" sizes? Please report back on fitment and performance.
Croc Posted June 24 Posted June 24 6 hours ago, Daniel Escobar said: My local trackday wont allow slicks, so need to stick to road tires. how much quicker are these vs ZZR Extreme? Neither will mine in some events which is why I made the comment about hand grooving a tread pattern. Easy enough to mimic the ZZR. A little quicker than ZZR Extreme - a second a lap. But if the ZZR Extreme are not available then the P-Zeros are MUCH quicker.
CBuff Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) Keeping an eye on options as I will be due to replace my zzs by summers end. Took another look at nova as they were taking over the Avon production. But hadn’t yet committed to producing the zzs and zzr line yet. Will update when he gets back but this was Ken Payne , North American manager at nova, response as of yesterday. Edited June 24 by CBuff 1 2
CBuff Posted June 24 Posted June 24 Update Charles, I've confirmed that there is no stock for the rear tire at this time. Production is anticipated later in the year, but specific timing is still TBD. 1
Daniel Escobar Posted June 24 Posted June 24 10 hours ago, Croc said: Neither will mine in some events which is why I made the comment about hand grooving a tread pattern. Easy enough to mimic the ZZR. A little quicker than ZZR Extreme - a second a lap. But if the ZZR Extreme are not available then the P-Zeros are MUCH quicker. Those rear tires look meaty! how do they fit on the fenders? whats the width and offset of those WESMO BBS wheels?
Daniel Escobar Posted June 24 Posted June 24 4 hours ago, CBuff said: Keeping an eye on options as I will be due to replace my zzs by summers end. Took another look at nova as they were taking over the Avon production. But hadn’t yet committed to producing the zzs and zzr line yet. Will update when he gets back but this was Ken Payne , North American manager at nova, response as of yesterday. They are available in Europe...... I spoke to these guys in Spain that have them, only in the 333 "extreme" compound. Shipping would be expensive.. https://vilarinoracingshop.com/collections/avon-tyres/zzr#MainContent
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