The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale

[slowdude]

1 hour ago, Vovchandr said:

It's a peculiar car. I got curious and asked some questions 

You had good comments, curious to see what they come back with. Seller also mentioned corrosion but no pictures. I would have expected pictures of the a frame mounts (was a surprise for me there too). 

[JohnCh]

There are some interesting things on that car.  It states it was a Zetec car that was swapped to a Duratec during the build.  The valve cover supports that timing as the aluminum valve covers were used on the very early Duratecs people were swapping into se7ens back then.  However, the seller makes no comments about how the exhaust holes were addressed and you can't see any indications on the driver's side through the wrap.  Was there a reskin along the way or did Caterham supply kits back then without the cutouts?  It has SBD throttle bodies, but I don't recognize the wet sump or oil filter take off.  They don't look like Raceline parts.  Titan may have been doing their own versions at that time.  It might be a very nice car, but the steering wheel does not inspire confidence in the builder's attention to detail.  Although to be fair, that looks much newer than the rest of the car so might have been added by the current owner.  I wonder if there is any in-period information on this car in the California Caterham Club forum archives?

 

 

-John

 

[Vovchandr]

I haven't had a good argument online in a while, time to ruffle some feathers. 

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, JohnCh said:

 

 

-John

 

 

Good eye. Big oof. I'm also curious about the cutout and whether it was a reskin or a plug under wrap or supplied for a different model without a cut to begin with?

 

Ive never seen a vin plate in that location but it does look clean or factory like 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Cueball1]

I've been looking here for a long time.  Have not pulled the trigger on a car yet.  Missed out on a couple i really regret.  All you folks here are vastly more knowledgeable.  The birkin currently on bat and this cars and bids caterham might be of interest.  Lots of question marks on this caterham though.  Any opinions?  The birkin will likely be cheap but there are things I'd want to change (install windshield, different seats, don't love the full cage).  The Caterham seems to have a lot of oddities and question marks. 

 

Keep looking? or do either of these seem like a solid car to start in while waiting for my ideal car to come along? 

[Vovchandr]

39 minutes ago, Cueball1 said:

I've been looking here for a long time.  Have not pulled the trigger on a car yet.  Missed out on a couple i really regret.  All you folks here are vastly more knowledgeable.  The birkin currently on bat and this cars and bids caterham might be of interest.  Lots of question marks on this caterham though.  Any opinions?  The birkin will likely be cheap but there are things I'd want to change (install windshield, different seats, don't love the full cage).  The Caterham seems to have a lot of oddities and question marks. 

 

Keep looking? or do either of these seem like a solid car to start in while waiting for my ideal car to come along? 

 

Depends. Are you in California? What are you looking for in a 7? 

 

Seven is a wierd crossroads of "they are all the same" but also "they are all different" and it takes lots of time and money to source things to make them the way you want. 

 

So you're stuck between having nothing and endlessly waiting for right one to come along, or you're going with "good enough" go through the agony of fixing and changing things along the way. 

 

If a small cockpit is what you're looking for (non SV), you're in California, and performance is important the cars and bids one might be the way to go. It will likely go $35k and $40k

 

Otherwise if you want different colors, or different history or different setup then likely wait. 

 

Difficult parts to swap and find if they matter to you - wide track suspension, colors, seats, carbon fiber parts like dash, wheels. Roll cage is expensive but somewhat easy, I swapped mine. 

[ashyers]

There are some “custom” items that are very similar to my 2003 SV with a 2.3 Duratec. I suspect this car was built by the same importer, William Sours at Autocourse. He built some Duratec cars w/ Zetec chassis.

 

Andy

Edited July 17, 2023 by ashyers
Auto incorrect

[Vovchandr]

5 minutes ago, ashyers said:

There are some “custom” items that are very similar to my 2003 SV with a 2.3 Duratec. I suspect this car was built by the same importer, William Sours at Autocourse. He built some Duratec cars w/ Zetec chassis.

 

Andy

 

That would make sense. 

 

Still curious to what happened to some of the stock options that it should have such as wide track and FIA bar 

[wdb]

It may be my nature but I am always suspicious of a wrapped car for sale. There has to be a reason. 

 

I suspect the Cali Caterham will go for large $ due to the SB100 thing. Wrap or no wrap.

 

@Cueball1 my experience may not be typical but here it is. I've always wanted a Lotus, either Elan or 7. I saw a Caterham at auction and it pushed all of the right buttons for me. Plus it was near enough to me that I could see it in person. I won the auction, got a really neat car, and met a great person with whom I still communicate regularly. The car needed a lot more than I anticipated but it was running and driving, so I run it and drive it and fix it in between. I guess my point is that you should find one that tickles you and just jump in. Assume that it will need stuff -- most of them do.

[Cueball1]

Thanks for the input everyone! 

 

I'm leaning toward a good enough car for now while i continue looking for my ideal unicorn car.  Birkin on bats may be it if the price stays right.  Will be following it. 

 

Too many questions with the cars and bids wrapped one for the price it will likely reach. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Cueball1

[Vovchandr]

If you see a perfect one for you, don't be afraid to go high on it in value. It will retain the value and it will be annoying and expensive to turn another one into perfect... So technically it's cheaper to buy one to begin with. 

 

41 minutes ago, wdb said:

most of them do.

 

Ain't that the truth. My low mile SoCal car leaked every fluid it could and I'm still sorting things out years later. 

 

Love it though 

[Marek]

16 hours ago, wdb said:

 

@Cueball1 my experience may not be typical but here it is. I've always wanted a Lotus, either Elan or 7. I saw a Caterham at auction and it pushed all of the right buttons for me. Plus it was near enough to me that I could see it in person. I won the auction, got a really neat car, and met a great person with whom I still communicate regularly. The car needed a lot more than I anticipated but it was running and driving, so I run it and drive it and fix it in between. I guess my point is that you should find one that tickles you and just jump in. Assume that it will need stuff -- most of them do.

Exactly.  I didn't really know what Seven I wanted.  As someone commented, all Sevens are the same except every one is different.  Then I found one that tickled me and now I have a Seven I like.  It might not be the Seven I really want - but the car I have will help me figure that out much better than watching them come and go for sale.

[Anaximander]

23 hours ago, Cueball1 said:

Thanks for the input everyone! 

 

I'm leaning toward a good enough car for now while i continue looking for my ideal unicorn car.  Birkin on bats may be it if the price stays right.  Will be following it. 

 

Too many questions with the cars and bids wrapped one for the price it will likely reach. 

Cueball1, The prices for cars on BAT and some other sites have frankly gotten kind of silly. I would keep my powder dry and if things turn really sour from a national/world standpoint, cars that are overpriced right now will come back to Earth and you will find just what you are looking for in a sale where someone is no longer interested or capable of having an expensive toy.

[Bruce K]

I've owned 4 Super Sevens over the years (one rebuilt so extensively it qualifies for consideration as a 5th).  My first was better than basic:  A crossflow-equipped S3 with De Dion IRS.  The car had so much mid-range punch, it soundly defeated a TVR Tuscan equipped with mighty V8 in a highway punch.  The throttle response was like nothing I had ever experienced in other sports cars.  Considering the recent range of Caterham offerings, I recommend starting with a Zetec or Duratec-powered car.  Selecting De Dion rear suspension can provide improved track performance (there is much opinion on that subject), but will without question improve your boulevard ride and elevate your WAF.  The FIA rollbar option is taller and better braced than the stock, and therefore the superior choice for both street and track (you can affordably add the FIA bar later).  Holding out for the wide-track front end will give you a car with less push and roll in turns, and is recommended.  The choice between standard (read "diminutive") S3 chassis and large chassis SV is determined by driver size, and I am not just considering height.  I am 6 feet tall, and so fit nominally into the S3.  However, I am also a weightlifter, so my shoulders and legs are a squeeze.  It's a true "coffin on wheels" experience, but in the past I have enjoyed the in-cockpit stability, and have never needed to brace against G forces.  If I was to purchase again, however, I would choose an SV for the additional comfort, as the performance demerit is nearly nil.  With each subsequent Super Seven, I moved up in power and performance, including my final car:  A Superlight R400 with enhanced Duratec and copious carbon fiber, close-ratio 6 speed, LSD and De Dion.  Moving up in increments meant my adjustment at each new level was minor, an important factor when driving a car so tiny and powerful.  I also built equity with each purchase, rendering my expensive final Seven purchase more affordable.  I also bought all my Sevens used, saving probably $100,000 between all the cars.  Lastly, when it comes to options on Caterhams, carbon fiber is quite popular.  It is pretty, but costly, and adds almost no performance.  My final car was loaded with CF, but only because the prior owner was willing to purchase it.  Here's that last car, a winner at the 2022 Eyes on Design Concours:

Edited July 18, 2023 by Bruce K

[Vovchandr]

56 minutes ago, Anaximander said:

Cueball1, The prices for cars on BAT and some other sites have frankly gotten kind of silly. I would keep my powder dry and if things turn really sour from a national/world standpoint, cars that are overpriced right now will come back to Earth and you will find just what you are looking for in a sale where someone is no longer interested or capable of having an expensive toy.

 

Considering opportunity cost and uncertainty of the future, I would just buy it now, expect a minor depreciation at worst and get to enjoy something in meantime. Otherwise if prices never go back down (which is possible) you're only losing out on more and more time and use. 

 

There are people in California which have been waiting on home prices to drop for decades and there is end in sight for that. 

[ukchris]

59 minutes ago, Anaximander said:

Cueball1, The prices for cars on BAT and some other sites have frankly gotten kind of silly. I would keep my powder dry and if things turn really sour from a national/world standpoint, cars that are overpriced right now will come back to Earth and you will find just what you are looking for in a sale where someone is no longer interested or capable of having an expensive toy.

I don’t disagree but don’t tell everyone until after I get my SV listed! lol

[Cueball1]

As always you folks are amazingly informative and helpful!  Feel bad about dirtying up this misc for sale thread though. 

 

If it stays cheap, as a "good enough for now" car are there any red flags on that bat birkin?  Yes the tape over the windshield mount holes is cheesy and maybe indicative of lack of attention. 

 

Will want to install a proper windshield.  Do caterham windshield parts fit birkins? Will also want a driver seat to match the passenger or a matching pair of roadgoing seats.  Not terribly picky on seats. Hard to find affordable seats that fit?

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/birkin-s3/

Edited July 19, 2023 by Cueball1

[Vovchandr]

I'd say under $20k it would be worth it

 

No experience on Birkin specific semantics and issues. 

 

I doubt he's no reserve and has it set under $20k though. Who knows 

[theDreamer]

Any questions re; cars & parts https://birkindirect-usa.com/

 

[wdb]

I admit to being a n00b in terms of all the variations of 7's out there, but gee -- why is that Birkin still so cheap? Is there something about Birkins I don't know?

 

The only real knock against it I can see is the hack job under the driver's seat. It is certainly a track oriented build also, which may not be everyone's cuppa. And I can imagine that rollcage making ingress/egress a bit of a trick. But it seems very well specced overall. And it has the SB100. My uneducated price range would be at least triple it's current $9500 bid.