The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale

[Bruce K]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:14 PM, Anaximander said:

Bruce,

 

Interesting observations. Since our Stalkers and most other se7ens do not come with airbags, about the only thing we can do is make sure that we have at least up-to-date 5-6 point 3" racing seat belts. If you strap in really tight, I am not sure that the rake of the windscreen would make any difference in terms of head injury? If you are concerned about head injuries in a collision which is a real possibility in any of these type cars, then I would suggest using a helmet that allows us to use a Hans device so that we minimize the risk of serious head/neck injury in a collision. Short of doing that, all of these types of cars, especially kits that are Cobra replicas can put a person in a world of hurt due to their old-school crappy handling characteristics. If we also look structurally at the chassis of a Lotus/Caterham, we have to be aware that we have even less structural integrity surrounding ourselves than a Stalker due to the smaller gauge of metal that is used. Colin Chapman likely wasn't too overly focused on safety issues when he designed his Se7ens and was concerned with every extra pound of weight.

 

I guess life is all about weighing the risks and rewards and determining for ourselves what level of safety we hope to achieve in our lives. For me personally, Covid was a wakeup call that a tiny non-living organism could have taken me out as it did a couple of acquaintances as easily as getting in a wreck with one of our cars. Frankly, I would rather flame out in a se7esque car than die from a virus I can't even see

 

I have made a personal decision to wear a Sparco neck brace along with my Sparco carbon fiber lightweight helmet when I race my Stalker AXR in autocross events. The likelihood of needing the neck brace it is probably on the low side but I am keenly aware of the fragility of our spinal columns and the attachment of my 10-11 pound bowling ball of a head sitting atop just a few sinewy connections to my spinal cord. On top of that, a normal brain weighs about 3 pounds and can suffer contrecoup injury in a sudden deceleration. Thankfully, my brain is so small that it would fit up a gnat's butt and roll around like a BB in a boxcar .

Anaximander - I agree with all your observations, and thanks for reminding me to purchase a new neck brace for trackdays with my Caterham.  However, the issue of windshield frame proximity to passenger heads is still relevant, belts or no.  The  upper front corners of the Stalker street cage are not supported with upper longitudinal bars on the right and left side - only in the middle.  Thus, in an accident, the windshield frame could deform and fold back to meet the heads of occupants.  In the new design, there is more than an additional 6 inches of deformation space - something our forum members should be aware of.  This issue, plus the beneficial effect the design change had on the profile of the Stalker (more "Se7enesque") were the reasons I focused my personal Stalker search on later models (circa 2018 and up).

 

Also, my Caterham was recently invited to attend a prestigious Concours - and won an award!  The story is an endorsement of Caterham design and execution, as well as an endorsement of our chosen genre of sports cars.  The saga is provided under "New Topics" on the "Forum" page (hotlink:  Caterham wins coveted Concours award . . .).

Edited July 18, 2022 by Bruce K

[Anaximander]

Bruce, Your points about the lack of upper longitudinal bars supporting the front portion of the roll cage seem reasonable. Last week, I had an HVAC replacement and the fellow that did the work jumped monster trucks for fun over an 8 year period. He pointed out to me that very same concern and said that in the monster truck world, they enacted some different structural requirements because one of their participants died in such a manner as you describe. He also showed me a picture of one of his monster trucks that did end over end flips and crushed the driver's side of the roll bar encased cab. He reported that he had to crawl out of the passenger side of the truck. Of course, our se7ens are not designed to get 15 feet of air over jumps but your observations do not seem to have missed the mark. The one thing we Stalker owners and other se7ens have going for us is the low center of gravity that seemingly would make it very difficult to roll these cars in most circumstances. Again, if one is overly focused on the inherent dangers of the cars we drive, then they likely should drive cars that have 5-star crash and roll-over ratings.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Anaximander

[Bruce K]

7 hours ago, Anaximander said:

Bruce, Your points about the lack of upper longitudinal bars supporting the front portion of the roll cage seem reasonable. Last week, I had an HVAC replacement and the fellow that did the work jumped monster trucks for fun over an 8 year period. He pointed out to me that very same concern and said that in the monster truck world, they enacted some different structural requirements because one of their participants died in such a manner as you describe. He also showed me a picture of one of his monster trucks that did end over end flips and crushed the driver's side of the roll bar encased cab. He reported that he had to crawl out of the passenger side of the truck. Of course, our se7ens are not designed to get 15 feet of air over jumps but your observations do not seem to have missed the mark. The one thing we Stalker owners and other se7ens have going for us is the low center of gravity that seemingly would make it very difficult to roll these cars in most circumstances. Again, if one is overly focused on the inherent dangers of the cars we drive, then they likely should drive cars that have 5-star crash and roll-over ratings.

Anaximander - agreed re:  Safety.  If safety is your primary concern, you do not like autocross or trackdays or sports cars in general, and you are probably not reading this post or anything on this forum.  And regarding Sevens in particular, the act of navigating them is akin to maneuvering a superbike equipped with four wheels.  No motorcycle is "safe", and Caterhams can at best be described as "safer".  Stalkers and Divas rank higher, as safer still.  Even Cobras and GT40's are only a rung up the ladder of safety.  We are not in this sport because we studied the actuarial tables - we are in this sport because of a shared desire to burn life's candle down to the quick.  And for a taste of that, hammer the throttle on an R500 Superlight with lots of runway ahead of you.

[jimmylukeii]

One more to add: 2001 Caterham Super 7 upd for auction here: https://carsandbids.com/auctions/36EPPdXy/2001-caterham-super-7

[Croc]

21 hours ago, Anaximander said:

...our se7ens are not designed to get 15 feet of air over jumps ...

 

@xcarguy  You were always a high achiever!

 

 

[xcarguy]

2 hours ago, Croc said:

 

@xcarguy  You were always a high achiever!

 

 

Hello, Croc. Suave here, answering on behalf of my master. As you know, xcarguy has been on sabbatical, building the Exocet with his offspring. It’s nice to know that you still hold him in such ‘high’ regards.  You’ll also be surprised to know that xcarguy has taken up playing in the dirt once again. Yep, jumping off/over things (purposely now) and teaching his kids his bad habits. As for me these days? Well, let’s just say I’m sitting n the corner of the tool chest and awaiting our return to some track action….in time, I suppose. I managed to sneak a few of photos of what he’s been up to. TA TA for now.

 

 

[Anaximander]

OMG, Less Suave here. I thought I had lost contact with my long lost relative, Suave. He always went for those bright colors where I am choosing to put sedate STOP ME RED (nope, not street legal, hehehe) on my almost completed Stalker AXR. Unlike Suave's caretaker, I don't plan to do any jumping in this new autox car if my caretaker has any sense when he starts pressing the loud pedal in anger.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Anaximander

[kayentaskier]

Just went live on BAT, no reserve

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-caterham-super-seven-2/

[SENC]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144655852811?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=e6bfc1d9dcbb4bf393e738759589e25b&bu=44278349486&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20220723015151&segname=11021

 

Must be summer Seven cleanout week!

[Anaximander]

2 hours ago, SENC said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144655852811?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=e6bfc1d9dcbb4bf393e738759589e25b&bu=44278349486&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20220723015151&segname=11021

 

Must be summer Seven cleanout week!

Henry, I am really concerned how ridiculous the used car market has become for se7vens. Just a couple of days ago, a 2016 Stalker XL sold on BAT for almost $20k more than you could get a brand-new copy of the same car. The person had set a reserve of $33k and ended up selling it for $77k plus the 5% fee that BAT charges. This just does not make any sense to me. It may be that there are a multiplicity of reasons why people are abandoning traditional metrics and I suspect that the pandemic has had some impact on people's psychological outlooks and willingness to throw care to the wind in these trying times? For sellers, this is a terrific time to sell. For buyers, I sure don't think so. Just my $.02 on the matter.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Anaximander

[panamericano]

On the other hand, this looks very well bought, to me.  An S1 Superformance for $16k

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-superperformance-s-1-lotus-super-6-replicar/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2022-07-23

[Car_Guy]

That BAT stalker looks like a perfect example of two rich people wanting the same thing and just going for it, had the other not been ther it would have been much lower.  It is interesting to look at their bidding history, one of them had bought 3 other cars from BAT in the last year....

[MV8]

That's a bit high for a fixer upper with a cracked, unobtainium windshield, left out in the sunny WA weather for a while.

My understanding is the winning of the auction only provides a direct introduction to the seller, and may not result in a sale, with no penalty for winning auctions but not buying. They get paid anyway.

Looks like he had instant "buyer" remorse.

[Anaximander]

MV8, At least the winning bidder is willing to step up to the plate and finish the transaction (class act). Somebody living on the West Coast up near Gig Harbor, WA could likely get a re-purchase price that would allow them to do the necessary fixing up and have a fun car to run around in since there are reportedly only 56 of them in the country.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Anaximander

[Bruce K]

6 hours ago, Anaximander said:

Henry, I am really concerned how ridiculous the used car market has become for se7vens. Just a couple of days ago, a 2016 Stalker XL sold on BAT for almost $20k more than you could get a brand-new copy of the same car. The person had set a reserve of $33k and ended up selling it for $77k plus the 5% fee that BAT charges. This just does not make any sense to me. It may be that there are a multiplicity of reasons why people are abandoning traditional metrics and I suspect that the pandemic has had some impact on people's psychological outlooks and willingness to throw care to the wind in these trying times? For sellers, this is a terrific time to sell. For buyers, I sure don't think so. Just my $.02 on the matter.

There are a few issues with the Blue Stalker, including the intensely raked windshield, which Scott has redesigned in cars built since about 2018 (see my previous post on this issue).  I also dislike the appearance of the modern light array, although it has the benefit of incorporating downforce canards.  In defense of the car, however, I spoke with Mike from NY back around 2017.  He was the original owner, and the person who specced this car.  As Anaximander noted in a prior post, Mike elaborately optioned this vehicle.  The heavily-upholsted racing/touring seats are not my choice, but if you want comfort and support, they were among the best available at that time, and very expensive.  Mike also included every important handling, convenience and performance option, and claimed at the time that his Stalker significantly outperformed his newish Porsche Turbo.  We all know that claim to be true only to about 90 or 100 mph, but that range includes almost all ordinary motoring.  Mike also ordered costly custom wheels that were, indeed, fabulous in appearance.  Without checking again, I do not believe this blue Stalker could be reproduced currently for just $77K, and the purchase would certainly entail a 2 to 6 month wait for construction.  For reference, a new, fully optioned Caterham 620R currently costs in the neighborhood of $90K.  Remember:  The miles on this car are quite low - about demo level.  Thus, while at the high end, the $77K selling price can be justified.  Also, Anaximander - I did purchase a Simpson neck brace because of your reminder - thanks!

Edited July 23, 2022 by Bruce K

[MV8]

2 hours ago, Anaximander said:

MV8, At least the winning bidder is willing to step up to the plate and finish the transaction (class act). Somebody living on the West Coast up near Gig Harbor, WA could likely get a re-purchase price that would allow them to do the necessary fixing up and have a fun car to run around in since there are reportedly only 56 of them in the country.

Nothing to be sad about. My point is a person listed as having won several auctions may not have bought anything. You seem to be suggesting that I think it would be ok not to follow through. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I like the car, but I don't know how much running around can be done. It may be problem passing inspection for registration when a new screen is not available. An out of State sale usually requires inspection. When I lived on Whidbey Island, the police were sticklers about very minor things, imho.  

[Anaximander]

MV8,

I am not sure in the least how my post would have suggested that I think it is OK to not follow through on the sale??? In fact, the winning bidder did in fact state that he/she was planning to pay for the car but was willing to sell the car that was successfully bid on for less that they planned to pay.

 

This is what Gcarbid47 posted as the last comment of the sale: "Hi
I purchased while driving, but having second thoughts as 2500 miles from me, fir a bit of a project. If any other bidders are interested let me know. Honoring the sale of course, will accept reasonable even lower offer 😏". 

 

I opined that this was a "class act". Please do not misrepresent my words. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Anaximander

[JohnCh]

@MV8 and @Anaximander, I think you two are on the same page but misinterpreting each other's comments.  I believe Anaximander's sad emoji was meant to reflect sadness that the buyer is showing remorse and may not keep the car (I agree, an unwanted se7en is a sad thing), whereas MV8 is interpreting it as a comment that he thinks it's okay to back out on a deal (which he does not).  If I'm incorrect, then have at it, otherwise, perhaps have a virtual beer together.  

 

-John

 

[Vovchandr]

12 hours ago, Anaximander said:

Henry, I am really concerned how ridiculous the used car market has become for se7vens. Just a couple of days ago, a 2016 Stalker XL sold on BAT for almost $20k more than you could get a brand-new copy of the same car. The person had set a reserve of $33k and ended up selling it for $77k plus the 5% fee that BAT charges. This just does not make any sense to me. It may be that there are a multiplicity of reasons why people are abandoning traditional metrics and I suspect that the pandemic has had some impact on people's psychological outlooks and willingness to throw care to the wind in these trying times? For sellers, this is a terrific time to sell. For buyers, I sure don't think so. Just my $.02 on the matter.

 

One of the bidders (not a winner) just won an Atom. Bidding was upto $56k or so. He comes in and bids nearly $20k over that and wins it. He wasn't even in the running upto that point.

 

Who. Who does that?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Vovchandr

[Bruce K]

13 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

 

One of the bidders (not a winner) just won an Atom. Bidding was upto $56k or so. He comes in and bids nearly $20k over that and wins it. He wasn't even in the running upto that point.

 

Who. Who does that?

I don't believe those bidders were defying logic.  There are many Atom models, each numerically higher model worth more than the preceding.  An older Atom 2 with low miles just sold for $56K on BAT, which is about market value for several years now.  Two weeks prior, an Atom 3 sold for $72K, but again, that was market.  Look at the following BAT sales from several years ago:  Recall that an Atom 3 Turbo compares favorably to a Caterham 620R, their top model.  New, a 620R will set you back about $90K depending on options.  I tried to buy a lightly used one a year ago, and couldn't drive the price lower than $85K.  The BAC Mono has proven similarly resistant to depreciation.  I am not disagreeing that used cars have increased in value - only that some cars, particularly the ultimate lightweights, have retained value well for years now.

 

2016 Ariel Atom 3S Turbo

Sold for $76,100 on 2/19/21

 

 

846-Mile 2016 Ariel Atom 3S

Sold for $79,000 on 9/2/20

2016 Ariel Atom 3S

Sold for $72,000 on 6/30/20