Kitcat Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think if the engine is pushed back far enough that weight is biased to the rear, it can be termed a "front" mid-engined car? Didn't a car of that type advertise it self as "front mid-engined" sports car? Maybe a TVR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Paul, Longitudinally, the engine sits in the center of the car. Maybe that means we all drive mid engine Sevens. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamericano Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 "A bunch of Caterhams all at the same workshop/dealership in SF area - repeat visitors. In fact they have been here so much you have to wonder if they (or the seller) have something wrong. " I can guess what's wrong. The PRICE! Anything can sell if one adjusts the price accordingly. People would say there's a lot "wrong" with my car, but the price was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hill Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sorry guys.... At the risk of seeming argumentative I seriously doubt any of our cars weigh-in tail heavy, in spite of how far back the engine may be pushed. More like fast n loose with the English language bordering on misrepresentation or false advertising. These cars are good enough without such misleading hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzempel Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I'm pretty sure it's "mid engined" because the engine is behind the front wheels (and ahead of the rears). It's a bit of a stretch, but I've seen the terminology used elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimm Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Since when can a motor located in front of the driver be called mid-engined??? If the motor is located somewhere between the front and rear axles; it qualifies as mid-engined ( i.e, could be in front of the rear axle, or behind the front axle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVP66S Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The definition of mid-engine that I understand is the engine is between the wheel centerlines. In the case of our sevens, this is both correct and within the spirit of the definition, as no part of the engine lies outside the centerlines. There's front mid, and rear mid. I had a rear mid Toyota MR-2 and the weight bias was forward of my front mid Westfield, which was measured at 45/55 f/r. Surprised me when I weighed it. Early VWs and 911s are rear engine cars because the engine CG is behind the rear 'axle', even though parts of the engine reside forward of the centerline. Now I gotta go back to my notes to see if that was empty or with me sitting in it. I do remember it had about 3 gal gas in that far-aft tank and the spare tire was in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sorry guys.... At the risk of seeming argumentative I seriously doubt any of our cars weigh-in tail heavy, in spite of how far back the engine may be pushed. More like fast n loose with the English language bordering on misrepresentation or false advertising. These cars are good enough without such misleading hyperbole. My Caterham SV has 52% of the weight on the rear wheels before I get in the car. That's with an iron block, aluminum head engine with a heavy cast iron exhaust manifold and turbo and 1/2 tank of fuel. I think that weight distribution is typical of Caterhams. The definition of front mid engine I go with is when the front of the engine is behind the center line of the front wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVP66S Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) "I did not find a seven car on Ebay (full size, Scalectrix does not count) for sale but I did find the 1977 Lotus Esprit submarine from James Bond's The Spy Who Shagged Me. Asking $1 million dollars. I guarantee if you try to use it as a submarine you will drown thanks to the way Lucas electrics work...err....dont work under water. Probably the same issue above water too! :rofl: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lotus-Esprit-Classic-1977-Lotus-Esprit-/191438604024?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2c92a146f8&item=191438604024&pt=US_Cars_Trucks " If anyone here is seriously considering this, send me a PM. I used to work for the company that built it, and though I did not work on that project, I did similar stuff and the guys who built and flew it are old friends. The project engineer on that sub had a S1 Europa that he bought new. BTW, $1 million is far more than the initial build cost, and there were no Lucas electrics. Edited December 7, 2014 by NVP66S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimm Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think if the engine is pushed back far enough that weight is biased to the rear, it can be termed a "front" mid-engined car? Didn't a car of that type advertise it self as "front mid-engined" sports car? Maybe a TVR? Definitely was TVR ( I've owned 3 different models ) . . TVR 2500M ad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innominatus Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I think if the engine is pushed back far enough that weight is biased to the rear, it can be termed a "front" mid-engined car? Didn't a car of that type advertise it self as "front mid-engined" sports car? Maybe a TVR? Also, more recently, Panoz. They tried that marketing angle, as I recall, around the time they were taking their lone front-engined David up against the sea of rear-mid-engined Goliaths in LMP1. http://panoz.com/gtr1/model.html "The GTR1 returned the front engine race car to the racing circuit at the 24 hours of LeMans. The game-changing design places the engine between the front axle and the driver, proving that front-mid engine construction is the next generation of the supercar." It kinda sort of worked. In terms of driving dynamics, they seemed to be able to get away with slip angle shenanigans the rear-mids couldn't; I remember being at Sears Point in 2001 or 2002 and watching Jan Magnussen (or was it David Brabham?) drift the Panoz roadster luridly sideways up the hill under the T1 bridge to pass the leading Audi R8 (on the outside no less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sometime in the '80's there was the Ford GTP Mustang. It had the "front mid-engine" layout. It was fast and fun to watch, but the mechanics said it was a pain to work on. The engine was buried in the middle and access was a stretch. http://www.favcars.com/mustang-gtp-1983-photos-33706 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hill Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 slim: What year was that TVR ad from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian7 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 slim: What year was that TVR ad from? @ $7295 I'm guessing very early 70's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimm Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 slim: What year was that tvr ad from? 1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoBoost Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yeah, probably 1972 or 73. My 2500M (sold to buy the Seven many years ago) was good, easy to work on with the flip up hood. Never considered it to be mid-engined. It's been a long time, but I don't recall the dynamics being anything like my Elise, which does fit the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse D Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Don't know if this is the right place to post, but through Hemmings site I just stumbled across this 1967 Seven being sold at F40 Motorspoprts, of "Chasing Classic Cars" fame. http://www.f40.com/inventorymanager.php?action=view&Id=391277 Not many details yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDingo8MyBaby Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 That 7 above has been for sale for a LONG time with few details at that price. May want to check the frame number matches SB1844 with the historic lotus 7 register before purchasing as there are a number of non-original aspects of that car (including the obvious twin cam). Also - even though it says 1967 (which may be when it was first registered), it likely left the factory in ~1964. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 I want to see someone from this forum go toe to toe with Wayne Carini and negotiate a deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I want to see someone from this forum go toe to toe with Wayne Carini and negotiate a deal! If you have the money and are serious about buying a car from him and want to fly me to wherever his store is, I'd love to take a crack at him. Besides my own cars (355 so far) I do a lot of checking out and negotiating for friends and club members. I once kept a dealer open until 10:30 PM on New Years Eve negotiating on a new Nissan pickup. I walked away three times and they followed me to my car. We were way below invoice plus dealer hold backs and rebates by the time we made the deal. I'm reasonably sure they lost money on the deal but they wanted one more deal before the end of the year. New Years Eve is the absolute best day to negotiate with a dealer. Here is a link to something I wrote years ago for the Miata.net forum on how to deal with dealers, it is a little out of date because it was written before internet buying of cars had really started: http://wiki.miata.net/tiki-index.php?page=How%20to%20Negotiate%20the%20Best%20Deal%20on%20a%20Car Not sure if you can get to it without signing in on Wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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